Denny Crane

Ya know, from reading different threads about different sections of our contract, I’m getting the distinct impression that if ALL negotiated items don’t affect ALL pilots evenly, then we will not get a contract that can be voted in.

As an example let’s take vacation. (Retirement medical.....naw, already beat that one to death, but it does fit my premise too.) Now in general everybody is for improving vacation. My contention is that, depending upon what form this “improvement” takes, there will be a lot of pilots who will vote it down because the improvement (say a 6th week over 25 years) doesn’t immediately affect them, they will not make it to 25 years, or will retire early.

Are we, as individuals, so self absorbed that we cannot see the “big picture?” I read these threads and have a hard time convincing myself that we will negotiate anything of great significance in C2019 other than a pay raise........and we will get that regardless. It will be within a percent or two of what UC negotiates.

Fire away...

Denny

crewdawg

You have guys from both the old and new guard (whatever that means) echoing this thought. This one of the biggest things I hear any time that pay banding (eg...bringing 330/764 up to 350/777) is brought up...."you can't give one group a bigger raise than another!" Are these guys not seeing the bigger picture as well? Sure as a 330 guy I win more than a 350 guy, but even as a 350 guy I would happy. The pilot group as a whole is lifted and I can decide to down bid to another plane and not take a pay hit.

FWIW, I 100% agree with you. When at TA comes out, I'll evaluate it as a whole and decide. I have no problems if some things don't impact me as I know it's much larger than just me. I generally think that's what a majority of the pilot group will do. I also think (errr...hope) that your example of vacation is not what would cause anyone to vote down a TA. As a young/junior guy, I'm all for retiree medical, I hope to some day retire early and would love this. Plus maybe it will get Denny out of my seat faster!

I liken it to a FB political meme that I can't seem to find. On the political scale you have the far left and the far right. The 5% on either end are yelling the loudest, while the remaining 90% are like shut the heck up.

TED74

It's very easy to make anonymous demands and hold the line on theoretical improvements. It's another thing entirely to vote no on a contract that contains numerous goodies for yourself even if it has other bennies that won't help you one bit.

I'm not worried...I think a TA that offers something for everyone will ratify just fine if it correlates properly to our spot atop the industry.

Gooner

If it doesn’t give just me 71 hours of soft credit every month, it’s a no vote for me.

But really,I’m not too worried about too many voters being single or overly selfish issue voters. Scope is the only section that I would hesitate to say this about as holding the line is incredibly important.

Sputnik

Denny,

When I was still on active duty contemplating my future I spent far too much time on these threads. I learned lots of valuable stuff. Also started looking at alternative careers cause everyone on here was so relentlessly negative that I thought this career must suck.

Eventually remembered that the few airline guys I actually knew were pretty happy.

Views on here are not representative.

I have some concerns with our union leadership and the relationship with management. As you have said elsewhere, I am not expecting a contract anytime soon.

Scoop

^^^^^^^This!


Denny your concern is unnecessary. Plenty of bluster on the inter-webs. The collective wisdom of the Pilot group was demonstrated by the sound defeat of TA-1 and the overwhelming approval of TA-2.


We all have our primary issues but in the end most, not all but most, will view any proposal as a whole, and vote accordingly.


My bigger concern is that a very vocal minority has the ear of the MEC and they have set the bar so high - "TA-2 was a disaster and the 82% of Pilots who approved it are idiots" that the MEC will be hesitant to think any deal is good enough.


Almost everyone on SM claims they care more about QOL than pay. The funny thing is that if you drag out negotiations for years, there is no "Retro" for QOL. Every year you fly without QOL improvements is a year you can never get back. So to drag out a contract for say 4 years in a quest for better QOL seems counter intuitive and will deny many Pilots (those with less than 4 years left) that which many claim is their primary goal.


The other wild-card is the current UAL negotiations. If memory serves this might be the first time a passenger airline other than DAL raises then bar Post 9-11.


Go UAL Pilots!!!!


Scoop

gzsg

I would encourage every one of you to attend an MEC meeting and talk with all the reps.

They are more than reasonable. Very intelligent and above all else, 100% committed to the survey.

The nonsense that this MEC is hardcore crazy is just plain nonsense.

Mr. Bastian is returning 70% of Delta’s free cash flow to the shareholders annually. $4 Billion per year.

There is more than enough capital for the Delta pilots to make major gains across the board and conclude negotiations in short order.

Come to a meeting and meet the negotiating committee. They are all amazing and gifted volunteers. Very reasonable and fair.

Flying Monkey

Here's a cool contract item idea....some f'in reserved parking spots for sim training in ATL. Dedicated ones for each simulator. Geez.

Gunfighter

As you point out, the individual threads have been focused on a single issue and the opinions exist within a vacuum. Once the multiple issues are blended together, there will be a more holistic view of the TA. If the contract as a whole is lopsided, then it should be rejected.

Gunfighter

Living in ATL is a choice. Everyone else gets front door shuttle service. I WILL VOTE NO if we spend one ounce of negotiating capital.... Nevermind, sounds like a good idea, I'm behind you. There are so many small QOL items like this that are nearly free. HABU on DH improvements though.