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Han Solo 11-03-2018 04:19 AM

PCS
 
I am curious how people can drop trips when the entirely of the trip falls over black RES coverage days. A trip which had been a Q trip recently became actual open time over 4 black days, I looked at the pilot history in icrew and the reason was DROT which I'm pretty sure is a plain drop, not IVD or APD. The RES availability for the days of the trip are 14/11, 18/15, 20/15, and 16/11 (REQ/Avail). There was no other movement on that day, so it's not like there was a sudden rush of open time trips that were picked up which gave this pilot the window of opportunity to drop. This is a dropped 4 day trip that covers 4 black days.

The trip had a Q next to it since the PBS run on the 20th and it only recently became actual open time. I thought I had a basic understanding of how PCS works but I've seen stuff like this happen a few times and don't understand why, can anybody help explain this? My only lingering thought is maybe DROT is some kind of chief pilot input since there is no help button to list what the codes stand for. Thanks.

sailingfun 11-03-2018 04:29 AM


Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2702129)
I am curious how people can drop trips when the entirely of the trip falls over black RES coverage days. A trip which had been a Q trip recently became actual open time over 4 black days, I looked at the pilot history in icrew and the reason was DROT which I'm pretty sure is a plain drop, not IVD or APD. The RES availability for the days of the trip are 14/11, 18/15, 20/15, and 16/11 (REQ/Avail). There was no other movement on that day, so it's not like there was a sudden rush of open time trips that were picked up which gave this pilot the window of opportunity to drop. This is a dropped 4 day trip that covers 4 black days.

The trip had a Q next to it since the PBS run on the 20th and it only recently became actual open time. I thought I had a basic understanding of how PCS works but I've seen stuff like this happen a few times and don't understand why, can anybody help explain this? My only lingering thought is maybe DROT is some kind of chief pilot input since there is no help button to list what the codes stand for. Thanks.

FAR conflict, swap, medical drop, company business, cp drop ect..
Just pull the pilots schedule and see what it says.

Han Solo 11-03-2018 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2702131)
FAR conflict, swap, medical drop, company business, cp drop ect..
Just pull the pilots schedule and see what it says.

It could certainly be any of the reasons you listed above, but since the pilot had been trying to get rid of it anyway I thought the most likely reason was a PD. Is there a listing somewhere of all the codes?

I don't know why but I always find it a bit creepy when unknown people pull my schedule so I never do it to anybody else.

sailingfun 11-03-2018 06:02 AM


Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2702158)
It could certainly be any of the reasons you listed above, but since the pilot had been trying to get rid of it anyway I thought the most likely reason was a PD. Is there a listing somewhere of all the codes?

I don't know why but I always find it a bit creepy when unknown people pull my schedule so I never do it to anybody else.

The company tried to block pilot access to other pilots schedules. We won a grievance over the issue. The basis was insuring contract compliance. You should have no issue pulling his schedule. If guys pull mine I appreciate that they are insuring the company is following the contract.
DROT means dropped to open time. To get the reason you will have to view the schedule.

Han Solo 11-03-2018 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2702163)
The company tried to block pilot access to other pilots schedules. We won a grievance over the issue. The basis was insuring contract compliance. You should have no issue pulling his schedule. If guys pull mine I appreciate that they are insuring the company is following the contract.
DROT means dropped to open time. To get the reason you will have to view the schedule.

TY for both the reason and perspective on viewing schedules.

Baradium 11-03-2018 08:10 AM

It's possible there was a significant life event that he was trying to drop the trip for as well and the CPO helped him get rid of it due to that reason.

StartngOvr 11-03-2018 10:33 AM

Payback Days?


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Denny Crane 11-03-2018 10:37 AM


Originally Posted by StartngOvr (Post 2702288)
Payback Days?


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Cannot drop a trip with PB days if the reserve coverage is not there.

I’m guessing a CP drop for personal reasons.

Denny

StartngOvr 11-03-2018 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 2702290)
Cannot drop a trip with PB days if the reserve coverage is not there.



I’m guessing a CP drop for personal reasons.



Denny



I was thinking perhaps the same 25% threshold as for APD or IVD. There isn't a lot of clarity on how the payback days work. Seems like it's at the whim of the schedulers as to how you can use them.


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Denny Crane 11-03-2018 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by StartngOvr (Post 2702483)
I was thinking perhaps the same 25% threshold as for APD or IVD. There isn't a lot of clarity on how the payback days work. Seems like it's at the whim of the schedulers as to how you can use them.


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Yeah....No. It’s just like doing a regular PD. Reserve coverage has to be positive for every day of payback day usage.

About the only place that talks about PB day usage is the Scheduling Reference Handbook put out by Dalpa.

Denny

notEnuf 11-04-2018 04:54 AM

PB days can be useless in a chronically undermanned category, which is exactly the situation required to earn them. They end up as vacation days if unused, which reduces their value. (23.S.14.c.) You end up adding them to a vacation bid and they are worth only the value of a vacation day. It’s better to use them on a high credit day of your choosing if staffing is adequate.

txlnnbl 11-04-2018 07:33 AM

DROT shows up as the reason for a drop when a pilot swaps out a trip for another open trip. If you look at the daily coverage on the same day, you'll probably see their name listed along with a "PS" for another open trip. If it was a straight personal drop the reason would be "P/D" in open time history.


Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2702129)
I am curious how people can drop trips when the entirely of the trip falls over black RES coverage days. A trip which had been a Q trip recently became actual open time over 4 black days, I looked at the pilot history in icrew and the reason was DROT which I'm pretty sure is a plain drop, not IVD or APD. The RES availability for the days of the trip are 14/11, 18/15, 20/15, and 16/11 (REQ/Avail). There was no other movement on that day, so it's not like there was a sudden rush of open time trips that were picked up which gave this pilot the window of opportunity to drop. This is a dropped 4 day trip that covers 4 black days.

The trip had a Q next to it since the PBS run on the 20th and it only recently became actual open time. I thought I had a basic understanding of how PCS works but I've seen stuff like this happen a few times and don't understand why, can anybody help explain this? My only lingering thought is maybe DROT is some kind of chief pilot input since there is no help button to list what the codes stand for. Thanks.


Han Solo 11-04-2018 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by txlnnbl (Post 2702732)
DROT shows up as the reason for a drop when a pilot swaps out a trip for another open trip. If you look at the daily coverage on the same day, you'll probably see their name listed along with a "PS" for another open trip. If it was a straight personal drop the reason would be "P/D" in open time history.

I believe this is incorrect. There was one PS on the day/time the trip was dropped however the employee number doesn't match. This is not the 1st time I've seen this happen, last month I saw 2 trips get dropped (using DROT as the reason) over the same weekend with 100% black coverage. A few others have posted likely reasons and even with SF's explanation of checking others schedules, I'm still uncomfortable doing so. It's not an issue where I think anybody is getting away with something, just trying to educate myself on how PCS works.

freezingflyboy 11-04-2018 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 2702568)
Yeah....No. It’s just like doing a regular PD. Reserve coverage has to be positive for every day of payback day usage.

About the only place that talks about PB day usage is the Scheduling Reference Handbook put out by Dalpa.

Denny

Ah, the Scheduling Reference Handbook. Also known as the PWA for those of us without 2 years of law school under our belt! :p

txlnnbl 11-04-2018 11:34 AM


Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2702745)
I believe this is incorrect. There was one PS on the day/time the trip was dropped however the employee number doesn't match. This is not the 1st time I've seen this happen, last month I saw 2 trips get dropped (using DROT as the reason) over the same weekend with 100% black coverage. A few others have posted likely reasons and even with SF's explanation of checking others schedules, I'm still uncomfortable doing so. It's not an issue where I think anybody is getting away with something, just trying to educate myself on how PCS works.

I just checked the open time history for a couple trips I removed this month via PCS open time swaps. “DROT” was the reason given for every removal. It is possible that the same code is used for other reasons as well.

msp7er 11-06-2018 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2702637)
PB days can be useless in a chronically undermanned category, which is exactly the situation required to earn them. They end up as vacation days if unused, which reduces their value. (23.S.14.c.) You end up adding them to a vacation bid and they are worth only the value of a vacation day. It’s better to use them on a high credit day of your choosing if staffing is adequate.

A payback day can be put onto a trip you drop via an APD. Now the trip only needs 25% reserve coverage. True, it burns your APD for your year, but I would argue that getting your payback days paid waaay better than 3:30-per is a good use of your APD. See the SRH Page 33, the 4th Q paragraph. The PWA doesn't directly specify, but the SRH clearly indicates that a PD or APD can be converted after the fact to the payback day drop...


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