From ALPA National to DL Management?
12-10-2018, 02:29 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
This should surprise none of us. Right from the Moak playbook.
Maybe this is the best thing that could have happened to us. Now, more than ever, we need the best job protection (SCOPE) language ever crafted.
Immediate penalties for even a single day of noncompliance. Conrcrete examples in the contract (PWA).
At the end of the day, we hold all the cards. MEMRAT.
There is going to be a full court press to outsource more international flying. It is not going to affect me, but you better believe I will vote NO for anything that does not have this new language.
We severely dropped the ball with the RJs. Severely.
Let’s not repeat our historic mistake.
Each and every year our executives are returning 70% of free cash flow to our shareholders. Approximately $4 Billion annually.
This is money they say they simply can’t spend.
No excuse not to make major gains across the board in scope, retirement, medical, work rules and pay.
Given this level of profitability, every Delta pilot must retire with the equivalent of a 60% FAE defined benefit plan.
Maybe this is the best thing that could have happened to us. Now, more than ever, we need the best job protection (SCOPE) language ever crafted.
Immediate penalties for even a single day of noncompliance. Conrcrete examples in the contract (PWA).
At the end of the day, we hold all the cards. MEMRAT.
There is going to be a full court press to outsource more international flying. It is not going to affect me, but you better believe I will vote NO for anything that does not have this new language.
We severely dropped the ball with the RJs. Severely.
Let’s not repeat our historic mistake.
Each and every year our executives are returning 70% of free cash flow to our shareholders. Approximately $4 Billion annually.
This is money they say they simply can’t spend.
No excuse not to make major gains across the board in scope, retirement, medical, work rules and pay.
Given this level of profitability, every Delta pilot must retire with the equivalent of a 60% FAE defined benefit plan.
12-10-2018, 02:32 PM
#12
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by crewdawg
Agreed on both accounts. Our TA better be a good, or DPA will come back in force. Going from being an advocate for the pilots to a MIP position has to just feel dirty. As always, money talks.
Today ALPA is an exclusive agent at the table with management. There are only two seats, one is owned by the Delta pilots, the other is owned by management.
If we were to leave ALPA, we would leave ALPA in it's chair to represent the regional pilots and we would pull a new chair up to the table. It could be quite an unattractive threesome. A "Devils Triangle" might be fun if your name rhymes with Brett Had-too- much, but I'm pretty sure who everyone else at the table will be trying to screw if we get involved in such a thing.
12-10-2018, 02:35 PM
#13
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by gzsg
This should surprise none of us. Right from the Moak playbook.
Maybe this is the best thing that could have happened to us. Now, more than ever, we need the best job protection (SCOPE) language ever crafted.
Immediate penalties for even a single day of noncompliance. Conrcrete examples in the contract (PWA).
At the end of the day, we hold all the cards. MEMRAT.
There is going to be a full court press to outsource more international flying. It is not going to affect me, but you better believe I will vote NO for anything that does not have this new language.
We severely dropped the ball with the RJs. Severely.
Let’s not repeat our historic mistake.
Each and every year our executives are returning 70% of free cash flow to our shareholders. Approximately $4 Billion annually.
This is money they say they simply can’t spend.
No excuse not to make major gains across the board in scope, retirement, medical, work rules and pay.
Given this level of profitability, every Delta pilot must retire with the equivalent of a 60% FAE defined benefit plan.
Maybe this is the best thing that could have happened to us. Now, more than ever, we need the best job protection (SCOPE) language ever crafted.
Immediate penalties for even a single day of noncompliance. Conrcrete examples in the contract (PWA).
At the end of the day, we hold all the cards. MEMRAT.
There is going to be a full court press to outsource more international flying. It is not going to affect me, but you better believe I will vote NO for anything that does not have this new language.
We severely dropped the ball with the RJs. Severely.
Let’s not repeat our historic mistake.
Each and every year our executives are returning 70% of free cash flow to our shareholders. Approximately $4 Billion annually.
This is money they say they simply can’t spend.
No excuse not to make major gains across the board in scope, retirement, medical, work rules and pay.
Given this level of profitability, every Delta pilot must retire with the equivalent of a 60% FAE defined benefit plan.
If I've misidentified you, my bad.
.... without the data or any idea what they are thinking, I'm waiting for something objective before taking any position.
12-10-2018, 02:37 PM
#14
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,545
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The DPA has never been a scope answer for one obvious problem ....
Today ALPA is an exclusive agent at the table with management. There are only two seats, one is owned by the Delta pilots, the other is owned by management.
If we were to leave ALPA, we would leave ALPA in it's chair to represent the regional pilots and we would pull a new chair up to the table. It could be quite an unattractive threesome. A "Devils Triangle" might be fun if your name rhymes with Brett Had-enough, but I'm pretty sure who everyone else at the table will be trying to screw if we get involved in such a thing.
Today ALPA is an exclusive agent at the table with management. There are only two seats, one is owned by the Delta pilots, the other is owned by management.
If we were to leave ALPA, we would leave ALPA in it's chair to represent the regional pilots and we would pull a new chair up to the table. It could be quite an unattractive threesome. A "Devils Triangle" might be fun if your name rhymes with Brett Had-enough, but I'm pretty sure who everyone else at the table will be trying to screw if we get involved in such a thing.
12-10-2018, 02:39 PM
#15
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Han Solo
I'm shocked if ALPA national positions don't have some sort of no-compete clause. Something like this will definitely give new life to DPA.
12-10-2018, 02:40 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,723
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Yup. He's the top JV and foriegn ownership guy at ALPA. If nothing else this buys him away from our advocacy and a potential brain drain on the area we need to defend most.
12-10-2018, 02:43 PM
#17
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by crewdawg
I don't disagree with you and wasn't a fan of DPA. I just think think that this, coupled with a crappy TA, has a ingredients for a DPA resurgence.
After the rejected TA most of the new Reps and Committee personnel were DPA supporters. Even our MEC Chair, John Malone, had played footsie with them. Quite a few remain.
Especially in John's case, he did a good job and benefitted the Delta pilots.
12-10-2018, 02:53 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 631
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Well, that secret didn't take long to hit APC.
When our Scope Chairman stated the MEC Admin / negotiators were opening scope discussions with the company on a consolidated JV agreement which would maybe trade regional protections for a global balance my first two thoughts were, we already have that in Section 1 R. (global production balance) and 1 P. 5. (global block hour floor) and my third thought was to call Rick Dominguez. He has more background and experience with the actual creation of our JV scope language than most anyone else.
When I reached out, the response was that he had a new job that nobody could talk about, ... and here we are.
Captain Rick Dominguez's responsibilities, as I understand them, will not be related to negotiations with the association. It makes sense that management would keep him well away from the table for now. However, he is only a phone call away.
... and it might even be a good thing if Capt. Dominguez was to get involved. He knows how to structure JV agreements with management and labor. He is a very bright and capable man. In my experience, he has been very good for the Delta pilots.
The "reader's digest" version of my letter to our Reps was:
· Align our PWA with the company’s commercial agreements with JV partners. Our flying should match the schedules found in the commercial agreements between the partners, then, for redundancy …
· Include revenue triggers as a floor. For example, if we see that 50% of an agreement’s total revenues (including non-operating revenues) originate from a partner airline, we should seek a 50% share of flying from that agreement, and finally
· Measure the results in jobs. When these negotiations are announced to pilots, pleasure use metrics pilots can understand
When our Scope Chairman stated the MEC Admin / negotiators were opening scope discussions with the company on a consolidated JV agreement which would maybe trade regional protections for a global balance my first two thoughts were, we already have that in Section 1 R. (global production balance) and 1 P. 5. (global block hour floor) and my third thought was to call Rick Dominguez. He has more background and experience with the actual creation of our JV scope language than most anyone else.
When I reached out, the response was that he had a new job that nobody could talk about, ... and here we are.
Captain Rick Dominguez's responsibilities, as I understand them, will not be related to negotiations with the association. It makes sense that management would keep him well away from the table for now. However, he is only a phone call away.
... and it might even be a good thing if Capt. Dominguez was to get involved. He knows how to structure JV agreements with management and labor. He is a very bright and capable man. In my experience, he has been very good for the Delta pilots.
The "reader's digest" version of my letter to our Reps was:
· Align our PWA with the company’s commercial agreements with JV partners. Our flying should match the schedules found in the commercial agreements between the partners, then, for redundancy …
· Include revenue triggers as a floor. For example, if we see that 50% of an agreement’s total revenues (including non-operating revenues) originate from a partner airline, we should seek a 50% share of flying from that agreement, and finally
· Measure the results in jobs. When these negotiations are announced to pilots, pleasure use metrics pilots can understand
Also Han Solo there is no such non compete. This is embarrassing.
12-10-2018, 03:08 PM
#19
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Peoloto
Of course you think this is good.
Reality check, we have had 5 scope Chairmen in less than two years (assuming Brent gets replaced). We just had a negotiator resign. We lack the political stability and discipline to develop our team properly.
12-10-2018, 03:20 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Didn't you get some FPL from this administration? Might want to pick up the phone and call your sponsors to see if you want to take a position on this. My understanding is (our/the) administration is 100% behind this negotiation.
If I've misidentified you, my bad.
.... without the data or any idea what they are thinking, I'm waiting for something objective before taking any position.
If I've misidentified you, my bad.
.... without the data or any idea what they are thinking, I'm waiting for something objective before taking any position.
I have always advocated a 5 year break from ALPA to management. Obviously that is not going to happen. We get used to by some who will sell their soul for money.
At the end of the day, we have membership ratification. We have proven we have a limit with the rejection of the shameless TA1.
Hopefully we make the major gains across the board warranted by this level of profitability created by the Delta pilots billions in sacrifices and loss of retirement.
Otherwise, we have nothing to fear by voting No.
We will never have an agreement that does not include full retro pay.
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