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Yup.
If i recall the pilot pension payment termination was the first order they put in front of the judge after filing. The very next morning i believe. He didnt ask the judge for relief in a % reduction...noooo. Terminate. Almost with a flavor of malice. If our cba doesnt take this opportunity to take our ceo to task for selective memory.....well. Lets just say you all arent getting your dues moneys worth. Wtf good is an obscure billboard on Va ave? Call him on this whitewash. In the medium of his choosing. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2823786)
I am not sure how you had a 140,000 earned and accrued payout. Given your still working now and your age in 2004 that would have required a FAE of about 400,000. Possible but not easy to do back then unless you had a massive amount of green slips.
As far as the claim I did not mention it. The note was negotiated and directly tied to the pension. In fact the 650 million dollar note was only payable if the pension plan was terminated. Had the plan survived there was no note payment. Your age 60 payout is about 13,000 a year more than mine. Your age 65 payout is exactly the same. Not sure why that is. Your 65 payment should be higher based on the FAE and your age 60 amount. I would ask the PBGC for a accounting. For perspective I have a friend who was hired one year earlier than me at NWA. His frozen benefit is 84,000 a year. He was a 757 CA at the time. Yes....im corrected. :) your math with the prorata is accurate. the fae was there for a 140k at maturity only. With the fractional years service discount im in your ballpark with age 60 rough math of DB/pbgc ~$100k/~$65k. I dont have the pbgc estimate in hand but i recall the age 60-65 spread is abt $1500 a month. Still a poke in the eye given the ensuing economic performance, and this moralizing by a ceo who lost sleep over not inflicting enough damage to the pilot group. The note and claim payed out at a substantial discount as W2 income. Along with the mpp $ i hope all of us have been fortunate in parlaying those resources into some improved financial circumstance. But im still po'd. Lol. |
Originally Posted by BobZ
(Post 2823807)
The trigger was there but im recalling a dance around stating it was a direct pension offset because it would 'complicate' the termination?
Yes....im corrected. :) your math with the prorata is accurate. the fae was there for a 140k at maturity only. With the fractional years service discount im in your ballpark with age 60 rough math of DB/pbgc ~$100k/~$65k. I dont have the pbgc estimate in hand but i recall the age 60-65 spread is abt $1500 a month. Still a poke in the eye given the ensuing economic performance, and this moralizing by a ceo who lost sleep over not inflicting enough damage to the pilot group. The note and claim payed out at a substantial discount as W2 income. Like yourself i hope all of us have parlayed those resources into some improved circumstance. But im still po'd. Lol. The one thing that really irks me is getting no real DC money during the period the plan was frozen. It was promised that if the plan was subsequently terminated the targeted DC plan would be retargeted to make everyone whole. Instead they went to a flat rate. Overall considering the companies financial state and the 20% funding level of the DB plan we came out remarkably well compared to the other airlines in chapter 11 at the time. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2823815)
I don’t like any of it either but Delta pilots claiming they lost their pension are pushing credible boundaries. My and your PBGC payout at age 65 matches my NWA pilot friend total benefit. Admittedly he was a under achiever and only flew his basic schedule but the MPP plan and note offset that. The MEC looked at both groups retirement numbers and found no real difference between former Delta and former NWA.
The one thing that really irks me is getting no real DC money during the period the plan was frozen. It was promised that if the plan was subsequently terminated the targeted DC plan would be retargeted to make everyone whole. Instead they went to a flat rate. Overall considering the companies financial state and the 20% funding level of the DB plan we came out remarkably well compared to the other airlines in chapter 11 at the time. I watched the Eastern disaster unfold.....it was a very sad outcome. Of the legacy group APA probably realized the best outcome in protecting accrued earned retirement benefit. Age 65 has been huge in extending the productive income window. To hazard a guess i think most pilots now having genuine value and ownership of their retirement security are the most influential reasons for not wanting to trade what we have for anything else. |
Bob Z for president in 2020!
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Forbes: Delta Air Lines CEO Says Bernie Sanders Got It Wrong On Delta Compensation.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/05/21/delta-airlines-ceo-says-bernie-sanders-got-it-wrong-on-delta-compensation/ There's something incredibly ironic about Bernie barking about anti union drives when the article photo is him boarding an Eastern jet. Granted it's a resurrection of the brand and a stock photo, but you get the idea. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2823815)
I don’t like any of it either but Delta pilots claiming they lost their pension are pushing credible boundaries. My and your PBGC payout at age 65 matches my NWA pilot friend total benefit. Admittedly he was a under achiever and only flew his basic schedule but the MPP plan and note offset that. The MEC looked at both groups retirement numbers and found no real difference between former Delta and former NWA.
The one thing that really irks me is getting no real DC money during the period the plan was frozen. It was promised that if the plan was subsequently terminated the targeted DC plan would be retargeted to make everyone whole. Instead they went to a flat rate. Overall considering the companies financial state and the 20% funding level of the DB plan we came out remarkably well compared to the other airlines in chapter 11 at the time. |
Originally Posted by badflaps
(Post 2824300)
Try telling that to 1955- 1975 DOH's. (DAL)
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Judging by what I see daily on our company employee website known as the D Net, my demographic doesn't exist at Delta. Pretty much how I feel about the big D in return.
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Originally Posted by badflaps
(Post 2824300)
Try telling that to 1955- 1975 DOH's. (DAL)
Its a measure of the character of corporate management that they extracted the greatest pain from those with the least recourse. And with the least opportunity for economic recovery. Those on property still had a job. And then an added 5 year reprieve from the governor. Everybody here should appreciate that if management didnt need the active pilot group to continue to move metal we would have faced the same fate. This is my interpretation of the implied follow on to the 'lost sleep' comment.......the worry was not enough was taken from us....and still have us show up and fly the jets. They needed us. They had no need for the retired pilots. |
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