C2019 Completed By The Amendable Date
06-03-2019, 08:29 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,580
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The airline industry, as a whole, has generally decided that experience has value. Economically, the industry has rewarded that experience with higher pay.
We should disagree quite strongly with the notion that the title is merely symbolic. "Captain" comes with responsibility and by responsibility, I mean, the expectation that you have the right answer for everything, which really boils down to service; serving your crew. 85% of the real problems, that can result in real trouble, are dealing with human emotion and behavior.
The issues go up in a linear fashion with the bigger jets. Docs estimate that around 2% of the population are psychopaths. If true, that means you've got and an average of 4 to 5 on every flight. Then you've got a crew of people, who often have had their circadian rhythms nuked worse than a first responder to the Chernobyl power station and are you know, middle-aged people with lives (kids, divorces, side gigs, who knows). The Captain's primary responsibility is to keep all of that "machine" functioning so that not only is the flight safe, but also on time and pleasant so that people want to keep spending more money to fly a Delta product and (dare I say) enjoy our better service.
Does a Captain have to do that task? Maybe nope if you take the position that you can just let the thing sink and blame others, but very few Delta pilots are those kinds of people. Most want the day at work to go well for others (in addition to themselves)
It is a lot more than an honorarium. I do object to a manager like Ryan Gumm taking the title when it simply is not his job (unless he is flying the line as a Captain)
We should disagree quite strongly with the notion that the title is merely symbolic. "Captain" comes with responsibility and by responsibility, I mean, the expectation that you have the right answer for everything, which really boils down to service; serving your crew. 85% of the real problems, that can result in real trouble, are dealing with human emotion and behavior.
The issues go up in a linear fashion with the bigger jets. Docs estimate that around 2% of the population are psychopaths. If true, that means you've got and an average of 4 to 5 on every flight. Then you've got a crew of people, who often have had their circadian rhythms nuked worse than a first responder to the Chernobyl power station and are you know, middle-aged people with lives (kids, divorces, side gigs, who knows). The Captain's primary responsibility is to keep all of that "machine" functioning so that not only is the flight safe, but also on time and pleasant so that people want to keep spending more money to fly a Delta product and (dare I say) enjoy our better service.
Does a Captain have to do that task? Maybe nope if you take the position that you can just let the thing sink and blame others, but very few Delta pilots are those kinds of people. Most want the day at work to go well for others (in addition to themselves)
It is a lot more than an honorarium. I do object to a manager like Ryan Gumm taking the title when it simply is not his job (unless he is flying the line as a Captain)
And I agree on the last statement. Why on earth did we waste sim time getting him checked out for a position his seniority can’t hold?
Was he hired as a pilot? Is he even on our seniority list?
06-03-2019, 09:34 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by Big E 757
This is an excellent summation!
And I agree on the last statement. Why on earth did we waste sim time getting him checked out for a position his seniority can’t hold?
Was he hired as a pilot? Is he even on our seniority list?
And I agree on the last statement. Why on earth did we waste sim time getting him checked out for a position his seniority can’t hold?
Was he hired as a pilot? Is he even on our seniority list?
Heck, let him fly as a Captain if he is merely flying as an FO based on his current category assignment. That means two line pilots will get paid for staying home (or the chance to triple-dip) while he and his "seeing eye" LCP fly the trip.
06-03-2019, 09:34 AM
#145
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Big E 757
This is an excellent summation!
And I agree on the last statement. Why on earth did we waste sim time getting him checked out for a position his seniority can’t hold?
Was he hired as a pilot? Is he even on our seniority list?
And I agree on the last statement. Why on earth did we waste sim time getting him checked out for a position his seniority can’t hold?
Was he hired as a pilot? Is he even on our seniority list?
06-03-2019, 10:05 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,979
Who cares if he flies as a captain?! He's not taking anyone's job. Two pilots get bought off and get paid to stay home every time he flies. And a LCA gets paid to fly with him. Are your captain egos really that sensitive?
06-03-2019, 11:16 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 402
Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey
Yes he's on the seniority list. Yes he's a pilot. And maybe he was checked out as a Captain because his knuckle dragging peers don't respect anything out of anyone's mouth unless that person's shirt has one extra stripe of gold string woven on it
/ chief pilots) will reign them in and get them back in line.
Look we are all pulling in the same direction. We all want the flight to be a safe, on time and pleasant evolution for our customers. I have found that treating each other with respect goes a VERY long way in accomplishing this.
The real question is why do you NOT respect the Captain as an authority? He is in fact your boss right? Is there some deep seated resentment of authority in you? Do you say sir or ma’am to our local law enforcement? Or perhaps to an elderly gentleman/ lady you hold the door for? I often call the first officer sir/ma’am when we are doing various tasks, it’s a sigh of respect and I am quite sure he or she has earned it.
Bottom line is the Captain is in command of the aircraft. He/she is the boss. Period. If you fail to show respect for the position then you are denigrating our profession and eroding the future of airline pilots and the respect that this job garners. I am quite sure the captain has earned that stripe, one way or another, and proven this with a FAA checkout as Captain. Checklistmonkey, you come off sounding jealous of Captains who you have flown with. If you want the title, and all responsibility that goes with it then put yourself through the ringer and bid it and do it....,
Otherwise sitting on the sidelines throwing darts from the right seat makes you look petty.
06-03-2019, 11:53 AM
#149
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by p3flteng
I have found that most people respect the position of Captain. Inside and outside of the cockpit. There are a few rare exceptions of those 4stripers denigrating the title of captain, but those examples are few and fare between. I would venture even further and say once those limited individuals get to far out of bounds the mechanisms (pro stan
/ chief pilots) will reign them in and get them back in line.
Look we are all pulling in the same direction. We all want the flight to be a safe, on time and pleasant evolution for our customers. I have found that treating each other with respect goes a VERY long way in accomplishing this.
The real question is why do you NOT respect the Captain as an authority? He is in fact your boss right? Is there some deep seated resentment of authority in you? Do you say sir or ma’am to our local law enforcement? Or perhaps to an elderly gentleman/ lady you hold the door for? I often call the first officer sir/ma’am when we are doing various tasks, it’s a sigh of respect and I am quite sure he or she has earned it.
Bottom line is the Captain is in command of the aircraft. He/she is the boss. Period. If you fail to show respect for the position then you are denigrating our profession and eroding the future of airline pilots and the respect that this job garners. I am quite sure the captain has earned that stripe, one way or another, and proven this with a FAA checkout as Captain. Checklistmonkey, you come off sounding jealous of Captains who you have flown with. If you want the title, and all responsibility that goes with it then put yourself through the ringer and bid it and do it....,
Otherwise sitting on the sidelines throwing darts from the right seat makes you look petty.
/ chief pilots) will reign them in and get them back in line.
Look we are all pulling in the same direction. We all want the flight to be a safe, on time and pleasant evolution for our customers. I have found that treating each other with respect goes a VERY long way in accomplishing this.
The real question is why do you NOT respect the Captain as an authority? He is in fact your boss right? Is there some deep seated resentment of authority in you? Do you say sir or ma’am to our local law enforcement? Or perhaps to an elderly gentleman/ lady you hold the door for? I often call the first officer sir/ma’am when we are doing various tasks, it’s a sigh of respect and I am quite sure he or she has earned it.
Bottom line is the Captain is in command of the aircraft. He/she is the boss. Period. If you fail to show respect for the position then you are denigrating our profession and eroding the future of airline pilots and the respect that this job garners. I am quite sure the captain has earned that stripe, one way or another, and proven this with a FAA checkout as Captain. Checklistmonkey, you come off sounding jealous of Captains who you have flown with. If you want the title, and all responsibility that goes with it then put yourself through the ringer and bid it and do it....,
Otherwise sitting on the sidelines throwing darts from the right seat makes you look petty.
I absolutely do not call law enforcement sir. The last person I called sir was the Colonel as I walked out the door and only because I was required to by law. I show respect for my elders and my peers and those my junior. But I do not call them sir. Nor have I EVER called an airline captain sir. I call them Bob or Jim.
Once again. You're missing the point. I have 100% been knighted Captain in my past and could here if I chose. It was a difficult task but by no means is it "a ringer" nor some insurmountable event that only a certain few could hope to pass. Being a Captain does not make you airplane God. It merely means you have lived long enough to occupy the seat and have chosen to do so.
Especially at Delta where they say during indoc and the interview that we have hired you as Captains.
06-03-2019, 12:09 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey
First, the captain is not my boss. My boss the Chief Pilot. He is my immediate supervisor. The Captain is the authority in regards to what happens on the airplane and in concert with the crew. He is most definitely not the boss of the FAs or the gate agents or the ground crew. I never one said I do not respect the captains nor do I disregard their decisions. I am, however empowered to disagree with them in matters of safety up to and including taking the airplane from them (as a worst case scenario).
I absolutely do not call law enforcement sir. The last person I called sir was the Colonel as I walked out the door and only because I was required to by law. I show respect for my elders and my peers and those my junior. But I do not call them sir. Nor have I EVER called an airline captain sir. I call them Bob or Jim.
Once again. You're missing the point. I have 100% been knighted Captain in my past and could here if I chose. It was a difficult task but by no means is it "a ringer" nor some insurmountable event that only a certain few could hope to pass. Being a Captain does not make you airplane God. It merely means you have lived long enough to occupy the seat and have chosen to do so.
Especially at Delta where they say during indoc and the interview that we have hired you as Captains.
I absolutely do not call law enforcement sir. The last person I called sir was the Colonel as I walked out the door and only because I was required to by law. I show respect for my elders and my peers and those my junior. But I do not call them sir. Nor have I EVER called an airline captain sir. I call them Bob or Jim.
Once again. You're missing the point. I have 100% been knighted Captain in my past and could here if I chose. It was a difficult task but by no means is it "a ringer" nor some insurmountable event that only a certain few could hope to pass. Being a Captain does not make you airplane God. It merely means you have lived long enough to occupy the seat and have chosen to do so.
Especially at Delta where they say during indoc and the interview that we have hired you as Captains.
So thank you, Ma’am/Sir. Oh shoot, probably just offended you...
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