Door Pay?
11-28-2017, 09:54 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by motof16
Interested to hear thoughts on Door Pay. How might it work? Opinions on whether it should be considered in C2019?
Door pay is an emotional pipe dream where people think they'll get free additional money above what they otherwise could have negotiated relative to their bargaining position. Door pay will have a certain cost to it, and it would be better to just roll that into the rate.
IMO the cost of door pay will be block time for the purpose of flight being changed to "taxiing for the purpose of flight". The company would gladly make that exchange. We get a few more minutes on average pay, but lose hundreds of pilot positions in lost block hours. Not to mention we'd be immediately shouldering the "ME TOO!" burden for FA's will immediately demand the same thing that will be costed into our side of the ledger for "what do we want to give up to get that".
No thanks.
11-28-2017, 09:58 AM
#4
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At the regional level door pay was more important, here less so I believe. Though it still irks me when all of us are responsible for the entire aircraft (FAs included) and not getting paid. Perhaps a provision that we could get credit for long gate sits could be a thing?
11-28-2017, 10:09 AM
#6
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Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
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Why stop there? Report pay for when I'm required to be at work for Delta. Door pay, beacon pay, brake pay etc. They are all just arbitrary when you are working and responsible well outside a pay time measurement. This is rearranging the deck chairs. 3 hour bus ride to a layover hotel or having to wait another hour for your room to be ready should be included too. But...
11-28-2017, 10:16 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by gloopy
Nah.
Door pay is an emotional pipe dream where people think they'll get free additional money above what they otherwise could have negotiated relative to their bargaining position. Door pay will have a certain cost to it, and it would be better to just roll that into the rate.
IMO the cost of door pay will be block time for the purpose of flight being changed to "taxiing for the purpose of flight". The company would gladly make that exchange. We get a few more minutes on average pay, but lose hundreds of pilot positions in lost block hours. Not to mention we'd be immediately shouldering the "ME TOO!" burden for FA's will immediately demand the same thing that will be costed into our side of the ledger for "what do we want to give up to get that".
No thanks.
Door pay is an emotional pipe dream where people think they'll get free additional money above what they otherwise could have negotiated relative to their bargaining position. Door pay will have a certain cost to it, and it would be better to just roll that into the rate.
IMO the cost of door pay will be block time for the purpose of flight being changed to "taxiing for the purpose of flight". The company would gladly make that exchange. We get a few more minutes on average pay, but lose hundreds of pilot positions in lost block hours. Not to mention we'd be immediately shouldering the "ME TOO!" burden for FA's will immediately demand the same thing that will be costed into our side of the ledger for "what do we want to give up to get that".
No thanks.
11-28-2017, 10:27 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by motof16
Seems like an interesting (if flawed) way to encourage more efficiency on the company and reinforces the notion that I should get paid when my certificate is in jeopardy. I agree that the devil is in the details and it would certainly have a much greater positive impact in the narrow body fleets.
Our rates are where they are because they apply to what they apply to; pushback to block in.
Simply changing that isn't going to provide a free raise. It will come from somewhere, and IMO some of those potential places it could come from would be detrimental to us all, including narrow body flying. IMO they want to change (reduce) block time, and that will cost us lots of jobs. Not worth the "raise" IMO.
11-28-2017, 11:23 AM
#10
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I appreciate your perspective Gloopy - not sure I agree. My comments below:
Nothing ... I'm anticipating similar negotiating capital as C2015.
- Which is just odd (says the guy with 2 years in the airlines
). What other profession pays for some portion of your work day? FAA and FARs certainly recognize block time and FDP are not aligned. I'm simply saying that pay could have additional components beyond block time just as it currently does. Maybe "responsibility pay" would be more appropriate.
Not sure how they can reduce block time without getting faster aircraft. In fact, door pay could drive efficiency that directly benefits pilots. Shorter sits, fewer legs, getting paid while waiting for an IROP to settle, etc.
Here's a strawman:
7ER 3-day ATL-LHR-ATL, 2 legs, 14 hours block, 16+ hours pay - little change under door pay
717 3-day ATL-JAX-ATL-JAX-ATL-GSB(x3), 15 legs, 15 hours block, 15:45 pay - biggest change here, adding door pay could result in 30 minutes additional pay for each leg = 7 hours of pay! Now that trip pays 22 hours! IMO this is more representative of the work involved.
Thoughts?
Originally Posted by gloopy
Right...so what are you willing to give up to get it?
Our rates are where they are because they apply to what they apply to; pushback to block in.
). What other profession pays for some portion of your work day? FAA and FARs certainly recognize block time and FDP are not aligned. I'm simply saying that pay could have additional components beyond block time just as it currently does. Maybe "responsibility pay" would be more appropriate.
Simply changing that isn't going to provide a free raise. It will come from somewhere, and IMO some of those potential places it could come from would be detrimental to us all, including narrow body flying. IMO they want to change (reduce) block time, and that will cost us lots of jobs. Not worth the "raise" IMO.
Here's a strawman:
7ER 3-day ATL-LHR-ATL, 2 legs, 14 hours block, 16+ hours pay - little change under door pay
717 3-day ATL-JAX-ATL-JAX-ATL-GSB(x3), 15 legs, 15 hours block, 15:45 pay - biggest change here, adding door pay could result in 30 minutes additional pay for each leg = 7 hours of pay! Now that trip pays 22 hours! IMO this is more representative of the work involved.
Thoughts?
