Being punished for calling in fatigued.
06-09-2019, 02:26 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Well again would you expect the company to pay you for the trip? Sounds like it should be a PD.
06-09-2019, 02:43 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Just a public service announcement and no comment on fatigue calls....
Absent obvious reasons for sleep interruptions, if anybody otherwise finds themselves dealing with out of ordinary fatigue, cognative, anger, or other issues strongly consider gettg a sleep study.
People with sleep disorders dont know they have them.
Absent obvious reasons for sleep interruptions, if anybody otherwise finds themselves dealing with out of ordinary fatigue, cognative, anger, or other issues strongly consider gettg a sleep study.
People with sleep disorders dont know they have them.
06-09-2019, 02:44 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF
If you kid woke you up all through the night and then you decide at 0500 you aren’t rested, I don’t believe PD is even an option for day of trips.
06-09-2019, 02:52 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by TED74
Was told the story of a recent fatigue call...
LCA was rerouted with his F/O into a long and challenging day and subsequently called in fatigued; F/O also called in. Review board was willing to pay the captain, but initially declined to pay-protect the F/O on the identical rotation. They reportedly said “he bid to fly with LCAs, that’s on him.” LCA followed up, justifiably livid and was reported to have succeeded in overturning the board’s decision.
How anyone on this board found bidding strategy relevant to fatigue pay protection determination (clearly iaw the PWA and normal PBS functionality) is beyond me. If I ever trusted the system before, I sure don’t any longer.
LCA was rerouted with his F/O into a long and challenging day and subsequently called in fatigued; F/O also called in. Review board was willing to pay the captain, but initially declined to pay-protect the F/O on the identical rotation. They reportedly said “he bid to fly with LCAs, that’s on him.” LCA followed up, justifiably livid and was reported to have succeeded in overturning the board’s decision.
How anyone on this board found bidding strategy relevant to fatigue pay protection determination (clearly iaw the PWA and normal PBS functionality) is beyond me. If I ever trusted the system before, I sure don’t any longer.
They both called in fatigued after Trip 1 and before Trip 2.
The review board didn't want to pay the FO because "he bid that way with his PBS bid"
06-09-2019, 03:00 PM
#35
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,706
From 17-01- Making the Fatigue Call from Oct 2017
Q: I am too fatigued to come to work because of a sleep interruption (for example, family issues) at home last night. I don’t feel it would be safe to report for my rotation with such insufficient rest. Should I call in fatigued?
A: If you are fatigued, then you should call in fatigued. The Company and ALPA are in complete agreement: no one wants you to fly if you are too tired to do so. In situations where the fatigue is due to personal issues versus operationally-induced issues, the FRB can’t award pay guarantee. The past (and continuing) practice has been for the Chief Pilot Office (CPO) to deal with these pre-report situations. Frequently, a personal drop is the more appropriate course of action. If the FFDR indicates that the issue isn’t covered by the FRB, it will be referred to the appropriate department (usually the CPO).
Q: I am too fatigued to come to work because of a sleep interruption (for example, family issues) at home last night. I don’t feel it would be safe to report for my rotation with such insufficient rest. Should I call in fatigued?
A: If you are fatigued, then you should call in fatigued. The Company and ALPA are in complete agreement: no one wants you to fly if you are too tired to do so. In situations where the fatigue is due to personal issues versus operationally-induced issues, the FRB can’t award pay guarantee. The past (and continuing) practice has been for the Chief Pilot Office (CPO) to deal with these pre-report situations. Frequently, a personal drop is the more appropriate course of action. If the FFDR indicates that the issue isn’t covered by the FRB, it will be referred to the appropriate department (usually the CPO).
06-09-2019, 03:02 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by DELTAFO
That's a true story, however one detail is missing. The FO had the PBS bid "Award trip if with a LCA" and the CA/LCA were flying back-to-back trips together. Trip 1 ended with a redeye to domicile arriving at something like 0600. Trip 2 started with report at something like 2000 the same day with long flight getting to the west coast at something like 0300 body clock time.
They both called in fatigued after Trip 1 and before Trip 2.
The review board didn't want to pay the FO because "he bid that way with his PBS bid"
They both called in fatigued after Trip 1 and before Trip 2.
The review board didn't want to pay the FO because "he bid that way with his PBS bid"
06-09-2019, 03:24 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Sure it is. I have had a family member very ill and spent the night at the hospital. Called the CP office and said I would be to fatigued to fly. Trip dropped with no issues. I did not expect or ask to get paid.
While calling the CPO and having them get involved day of results in the same thing of you not working they trip, that’s technically not a PD as defined in the PWA.
06-09-2019, 03:25 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Well again would you expect the company to pay you for the trip? Sounds like it should be a PD.
Sounds like if the previous hypothetical happens, call the CPO or duty pilot and let them know you are fatigued. No pay for the trip, but also no consequences, because life happens. Once you get some rest you can always white slip another trip as long as there is one.
Last edited by 4fans; 06-09-2019 at 04:09 PM.
06-09-2019, 05:19 PM
#39
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,545
Originally Posted by TED74
There you go...more detail than I had - sounds like the same situation. Bidding behavior weaving its way into the fatigue review process seems to invalidate its purpose, IMHO.
06-09-2019, 05:49 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by sailingfun
How would you be fatigued before you even sign in for the trip?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
