Operation is running on red line
08-13-2019, 02:34 PM
#381
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
So a new hire at your RJ outfit got 11 days awarded on initial PBS award?
That is what you are trying to get me to believe
Where was that since I'd like to fact check it......I'm certain you wouldn't try to mislead anyone
That is what you are trying to get me to believe
Where was that since I'd like to fact check it......I'm certain you wouldn't try to mislead anyone
No, I never said a new hire works 11 days. Again, your words, not mine. I said that I worked a line with 11 days off. So you can say that I gave you a data point that covered the entire pilot group to be misleading but it would make your 14 day number the same thing.
You wouldn’t be misleading people, would you buck?
08-13-2019, 02:46 PM
#382
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
No, the sophomoric premise is that you can take an isolated data point(especially one that appears to be massaged dreadfully) and act like it is not isolated and thus, totally achievable
We are negotiating a whole contract....very few data points are isolated. Most "gets" for one group are paid (or at least no gain)for by another section of the pilot group (straight line % increases in pay is the biggest outlier)
For example the simple proposal of greater DC contribution....sounds easy-peasy right?
Well, if you hit the 415c limit....you don't get PS on that DC excess....thus young guys are happy....old guys are not "just break even", they actually lose money
We are negotiating a whole contract....very few data points are isolated. Most "gets" for one group are paid (or at least no gain)for by another section of the pilot group (straight line % increases in pay is the biggest outlier)
For example the simple proposal of greater DC contribution....sounds easy-peasy right?
Well, if you hit the 415c limit....you don't get PS on that DC excess....thus young guys are happy....old guys are not "just break even", they actually lose money
You’ll have to break this one down, I’m not following your logic. DC contributions don’t draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?
08-13-2019, 02:47 PM
#383
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,412
Originally Posted by tunes
12,203 GS, 150 IAs, 4 GSWC, nope, no staffing issue here.
IMO there is no critical staffing issue until GSWC are handed out like candy. A350A last year, 717B summer 16, and NYC7ERB couple summers ago are great examples of true critical staffing.
This summer was just a spike of GS due to JFK runway construction and rolling thunderstorms thru multiple hubs on a near daily basis in July. Even with all that GSWC was not needed often
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08-13-2019, 02:48 PM
#384
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Extenda
I was like the number 5 of 180 FOs in NYC at Endeavor before I came here. I was mostly on military leave, but I remember my few full schedule months were generally three four day trips, twelve days total. They would credit about 78-80 hours. This was about two years ago.
You guys musta worked for different outfits
In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?
Thanks for that data point Extenda
08-13-2019, 02:56 PM
#385
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 909
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
OMG....you were in the top 3% and you worked 12 days for 79ish hours....not 10-11 days as Iceberg advertised?
You guys musta worked for different outfits
In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?
Thanks for that data point Extenda
You guys musta worked for different outfits
In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?
Thanks for that data point Extenda
Ie... "I cant understand how our current contract is lacking compared to not only other peer airlines but also regional airlines. So I will belittle those who have other views then mine; because I can't figure out that they are advocating for a better QOL for all. Then I will state how much I gave up for you to be here and have a job. I will say my plight is far worse then yours so you just have to deal with the suck."
This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.
08-13-2019, 03:00 PM
#386
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Iceberg
Are you saying that a greater company contribution to your retirement account hurts you?
You’ll have to break this one down, I’m not following your logic. DC contributions don’t draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?
You’ll have to break this one down, I’m not following your logic. DC contributions don’t draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?
A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.
Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.
Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling
I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out
Clear(er) now?
08-13-2019, 03:08 PM
#388
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Der Meister
Ie... "I cant understand how our current contract is lacking compared to not only other peer airlines but also regional airlines. So I will belittle those who have other views then mine; because I can't figure out that they are advocating for a better QOL for all. Then I will state how much I gave up for you to be here and have a job. I will say my plight is far worse then yours so you just have to deal with the suck."
This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.
This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.
Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.
My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement
Capice?
08-13-2019, 03:11 PM
#389
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
I didn't explain that very well....shorthand for comparing straight line pay rates to increased DC contributions(wasn't very clear)
A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.
Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.
Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling
I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out
Clear(er) now?
A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.
Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.
Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling
I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out
Clear(er) now?
08-13-2019, 03:24 PM
#390
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 909
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Der Meister,
Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.
My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement
Capice?
Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.
My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement
Capice?
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