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Those poor Airbus pilots...

Old 08-16-2019, 07:28 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Two Kings View Post
And you guys wanted all that RJ flying back. This is what you get.
Most of us are thankful to have it back. It has created more NB A positions and associated movement on the B side of the house. The WB A types that haven't seen movement from the recapture have benefited from the increased profits we share on the recaptured flying. Those who's seniority dictates they fly 5 leg days, would not be here without the recaptured NB growth.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:46 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Two Kings View Post
And you guys wanted all that RJ flying back. This is what you get.
We want even more of it back.

The real issue is that all the trips in all narrowbodies are starting to become like that, along with other QOL degrading features like early reports and late releases etc. There's no problem with an "RJ replacement which is really just a DC-9-10 replacement" doing "regional trips" per say. Most of the pain is how the trips are built and when the optimizer's only concern is one minute of credit at the price of maxed out everything and 2 plane changes a day all the time every time, that's what sucks.

Legs per day is a quick and lazy metric to use but I understand why becaue it does correlate. However Shuttle flying wasn't nearly as bad and was done by mainline for decades and was quite popular for many and that was 4-5 legs a day. So that's really not the fulcrum many act like. Also many schedules like that aren't really "regional" schedules anyway. Short ATL-FL hops were done in widebodies for quite a while and ATL-SAV/CHS and other markets were never a regional exclusive and regularly done by mainline.

The real issue is the duty days, plane changes and maxed out report/release times. When skeds actually brags about 1/4 of the trips in a certain category finally being commutable on one end, that's proof that the pain is by design and not a natural function of all "recaptured regional" flying.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:56 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
We want even more of it back.

When skeds actually brags about 1/4 of the trips in a certain category finally being commutable on one end, that's proof that the pain is by design and not a natural function of all "recaptured regional" flying.
I will take minor exception to this one small point. I don’t think the design was to inflict pain.....the design was to maximize profits by reducing credit and increase productivity. Granted,the end result may inflict pain....which is what pilots are concerned with....increasing profits is what the company cares about

Not trying to quibble with your overall post.....but the way it reads it sounds “nefarious” by management and, IMHO, not quite accurate
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:16 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers View Post
I will take minor exception to this one small point. I don’t think the design was to inflict pain.....the design was to maximize profits by reducing credit and increase productivity. Granted,the end result may inflict pain....which is what pilots are concerned with....increasing profits is what the company cares about

Not trying to quibble with your overall post.....but the way it reads it sounds “nefarious” by management and, IMHO, not quite accurate
Obviously I don't think the "pain" was a design feature simply to create itself for its own virtues. But it was 100% intentional and done without any regard whatsoever for any downline consequences and whatever collateral damage was 100% pre justified.

IMO at this point its way, way beyond diminishing returns, but the only concern is how many pennies can we squeeze at any non monetary cost. When we talk about profits, its easy to conflate it as an all or nothing issue. Its great we're very profitable. But that doesn't hinge on piling one more penny on top regardless of what it takes to find that penny. There's a balance and at least for some fleets one side of the scale is in the dirt.

Everyone wants more PS and corresponding company success. But the recent MEC update really highlights how bad some things have gotten. IMO we could see measureable QOL gains for very, very, very little drop in profits.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:31 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
Obviously I don't think the "pain" was a design feature simply to create itself for its own virtues. But it was 100% intentional and done without any regard whatsoever for any downline consequences and whatever collateral damage was 100% pre justified.

IMO at this point its way, way beyond diminishing returns, but the only concern is how many pennies can we squeeze at any non monetary cost. When we talk about profits, its easy to conflate it as an all or nothing issue. Its great we're very profitable. But that doesn't hinge on piling one more penny on top regardless of what it takes to find that penny. There's a balance and at least for some fleets one side of the scale is in the dirt.

Everyone wants more PS and corresponding company success. But the recent MEC update really highlights how bad some things have gotten. IMO we could see measureable QOL gains for very, very, very little drop in profits.
I doubt we see things improve until EB is gone. Stick it to the pilots one last time on the way out the door with his millions. I hope his activist career is as lucrative
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:16 AM
  #36  
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I don't mind 4-5 leg days, particularly on the bus.

What I do mind is being scheduled to 8:40 block and/or a 3 hour sit pushing us right against the edge of extending to start out.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:54 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
I don't mind 4-5 leg days, particularly on the bus.

What I do mind is being scheduled to 8:40 block and/or a 3 hour sit pushing us right against the edge of extending to start out.
Yup this is the issue...
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:45 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by saturn View Post
If the short range flying had never upguaged to mainline, I'd probably still be flying it anyways and waiting to get hired. I too had regional trips that look nearly identical to here on the Bus. Compared to a regional job with zero future life certainty,
I'll gladly fly those SLC-ABQ/BOI/BZN/PSC kinda routes with the DL contract & seniorty# while awaiting bigger n' better. Shoot, let's keep recapturing and grow this seniority list.
737A now, but would gladly do those every day. As long as it’s delta metal, no matter how small. Bring it
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Mudhendrvr View Post
737A now, but would gladly do those every day. As long as it’s delta metal, no matter how small. Bring it
100% agreed. Gimme all the flying!!
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:09 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
I don't mind 4-5 leg days, particularly on the bus.

What I do mind is being scheduled to 8:40 block and/or a 3 hour sit pushing us right against the edge of extending to start out.
AMEN!! I just saw a trip with 8:49 scheduled on one of the days with 4 legs. Leg 3 ends in a location that is not a base for the aircraft and it's a :45 turn to leg 4. That's just begging for a yuuuge goat rope of a delay and angry/frustrated passengers for leg 4 if the first 3 legs get overblocked by as little as :04/leg. Not smart.
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