Short Call Rest
 

I was assigned a short call RAP for Wednesday 1730-0230. Before my RAP began I was long call assigned a five day trip reporting at 0705 Thursday. The short call RAP was reduced to 1730-1930. Followed by rest until 0705.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but during my RAP, I am expected to be readily available and fit to fly (i.e. rested) an assignment of up to Table B plus 4 hours or 16 hours. This means potentially on duty all night long. This requires sleeping during the day in anticipation of being ready to work all night.

Anyone see where this is going? How do they expect you to rest for a possible overnight FDP, and then suddenly return to sleeping at night for the 0705 report to fly all day? This is a circadian rhythm flip from back side of the clock to front side within about a 15 hour period.

Options?
1) Spend my “Rest” period calling the company to try and mitigate the issue somehow.

2) Not rest for the RAP and HOPE I don’t get called. If I do, state the “F word” and have to deal with the potential consequences (pay loss, phone calls, filing reports)

3) Sleep during the day to be ready for overnight flying, and not be rested for the Thursday morning flight. (Cant sleep all night after sleeping all afternoon.) This leads to either flying without proper rest or having to call out fatigued prior to starting the trip.

I find it frustrating that I either have to prospectively solve a problem of their own making, or let it go to the point of a fatigue call and have to deal with all the explanations after the fact.

Anyone see a better option I haven’t explored?


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Ignore the short call. You’re not getting called in that 2 hr window. Take the SC credit, rest for the trip, if they call you on the SC, F-it. Opinion only.

Do you really sleep all day before a RAP?

That’s irrelevant. His point is you cannot be rested for both. And yes, I do rest for whatever assignment I have been given.

Just to be clear: before your RAP began you were on 10-hr rest. I hope they didn’t notify you on “long call” from 10:30 - 17:30 today because you weren’t on long call.

They probably just put it on his schedule and would have "notified" him during his actual short call window. Just guessing though.

That is very likely.

I think 117 says they can make one call even during rest and leave a message. They can’t call you repeatedly, though.

Doesn’t mean that doesn’t make you not fatigued.

I thought 14CFR Part 117 was federal law? Or is it just a "guideline"?

To answer your question, no not all day I agree. I don't think that was what I stated. But I would make arrangements to try to get as much rest as possible throughout the afternoon. With two kids and a dog in the house it takes some advance planning.

I agree with your opinion.....

I don’t know, he has a valid point. I’m pretty new on property but I’ve talked to both CS and ALPA before about this issue. As a guy who lives just far enough from base to have to drive halfway to be in position when on SC, a LC assignment later on while still on SC doesn't absolve you of your SC responsibilities. If I drive home while on SC and I’m out of position and get a call (both sources said that’s perfectly legal) for an assignment and can’t make it in, I’m on the hook. I know this is different but the concept is similar, you can make a solid argument that you’d be fatigued in the morning for that LC assignment, IMO.

I don’t believe there’s anything that says he CAN’T or WON’T get called in that 2 hr window. If that happens then we’re o the hook, right? Like if we were out of position in anticipation of that future assignment.

I’m pretty sure that exactly nowhere in the reg does it say a pilot must rest. It goes to great lengths to say the pilot must report fit and ready(rested).

Exactly the reg is actually in our favor. If you are untested or unfit 117 says you need time off until you are fit for duty. Also that time cant be under 10 hours/8hrs behind the door.

8 hours sleep opportunity. It's unique to each pilot, but I can't just fall over on the bed and bounce out 8 hours later ready for the van. Mine is more like 9.5 hours behind the door.

Be very careful about telling the company you are not rested based on where you live. The book answer from the company would be that you proceed to your domicile and spend the night. They are not going to entertain different rules for every pilot based on where they reside.

I’m not picking up what you’re putting down, at least not completely. If you’re suggesting fatigue call due to commute issues being a “that’s on you” deal, I’m with you there and that’s not where I was going with my post. My point was in the scenario StartngOvr spelled out, IMO he has a legit claim for Option 3.

Obviously not for most people most of the time. But the company expects you to show up for an absolute max duty day each and every time its legal. When you "say it out loud" like the poster in reference did, it makes it sound asinine. Which it is. But that's literally what we're expected to do even though its biologically impossible.

We really need to stop spreading the myth that "8 hours behind the door" is legal. It is not.

"8 hours behind the door" should really only be used in reference to a minimum contractual break in duty prior to a DH only duty period in my opinion. If you have an FDP and are flying after the break in duty, 8 hours behind the door isn't going to cut it.

If we really cared about fitness for duty, we’d be fighting for quarterly (or longer) shift-based bids, so that you’d fly the same time of day for months at a time. But pilots don’t actually care about fitness for duty or safety above all. We care about commutability, late shows and early releases to maximize time off, etc.

Everyone on both sides is being disingenuous about safety, giving only lip service to safety as a veil to get what they really want.

Absolutely. That would destroy rotation construction flexibility for the company too though, so it will never happen. The funny thing about 117 is that it is loosely based on circadian and sleep "science", but doesn't come close to recognizing how long it actually takes to fully and completely shift one's circadian cycle. If it did, we'd really have a "pilot shortage" and the public would be begging for unlimited foreigner pilot visas and cabotage and ME3 and FoC scam airlines would be on every route in the country.

How would that work for international trips?

Obviously there is no possible way to stay completely within one's circadian cycle doing international. That's why its augmented to mitigate that inevitable concern.

Circadian flipping domestic, however, is done for flexibility, staffing and cost and yes to some extent flight crew demand. 117 (unaugmented domestic) does not adequately protect that from a human physiology point of view. That freight train is long, heavy, fast and the amount of track required to stop and turn it around goes far past the horizon.

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Ok. Thanks!

Not all international is augmented.

The vast majority is though, and the portion that isn't is still 1 leg to a longer rest. I would agree that the envelope is pushed a bit too far (by all airlines) in that regard. BOS-DBN should be the limit IMO but we go to work with the contract we have and unless the rules are changed for everyone then we'll have to compete with others who do it unaugmented anyway.