23K versus reroute
#1
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
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23K versus reroute
A lot of pilots I've talked to are confused about what the difference is between 23K and reroutes. 23K applies before you sign in and reroutes apply once you sign in. As other threads have indicated, the Company cannot double 23K you unless it's something like a weather IROP and your city pair is listed on the the double 23K list. If you get double 23K(without being on the city list), that is illegal, and results in having the rotation removed and no recovery obligation.. A lot of the reroutes everyone is getting now is illegal. If they know about a trip(or turn) more than 14 hours out, then that trip must be attempted to be covered by a whiteslip or greenslip. An exception would be if they could not get a pilot into position thru a whiteslip or greenslip due to flight cancellations. Right now, the Company seems to be bypassing the whiteslip and greenslip requirement and going right to a reroute. I have looked at several reroutes that have been issued lately and see a high number that are illegal reroutes. I do not work for ALPA so verify the above info with them, but I'm almost 100% it is correct.
#2
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
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Posts: 3,251
A lot of pilots I've talked to are confused about what the difference is between 23K and reroutes. 23K applies before you sign in and reroutes apply once you sign in. As other threads have indicated, the Company cannot double 23K you unless it's something like a weather IROP and your city pair is listed on the the double 23K list. If you get double 23K(without being on the city list), that is illegal, and results in having the rotation removed and no recovery obligation.. A lot of the reroutes everyone is getting now is illegal. If they know about a trip(or turn) more than 14 hours out, then that trip must be attempted to be covered by a whiteslip or greenslip. An exception would be if they could not get a pilot into position thru a whiteslip or greenslip due to flight cancellations. Right now, the Company seems to be bypassing the whiteslip and greenslip requirement and going right to a reroute. I have looked at several reroutes that have been issued lately and see a high number that are illegal reroutes. I do not work for ALPA so verify the above info with them, but I'm almost 100% it is correct.
1) While 23K is generally prior to sign in, and re-routes after, there is an exception. PWA 23.L.2.a states a REG pilot can be rerouted prior to airborne of the first flight segment if the rotation begins with a roundtrip in a single FDP that has been delayed, and the reroute is for another roundtrip in a single FDP that departs no ealier than original roundtrip, and they are returned to original rotation following the rerouted roundtrip.
2) Regarding knowing about the rotation more than 14 hour out, PWA 23.M.7 allows the scheduler to deviate from the 23.N and 23.O coverage ladders in order to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do, the pilot that would/should have been awared the trip will recieve pay and credit for the scheduled value. This is why it is critical that when a guy/gal gets rerouted, they send the rotation to DALPA Scheduling so they can look to see if 23.M.7. was used and if so, they will make sure the skipped over pilot gets paid.
#3
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2) Regarding knowing about the rotation more than 14 hour out, PWA 23.M.7 allows the scheduler to deviate from the 23.N and 23.O coverage ladders in order to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do, the pilot that would/should have been awared the trip will recieve pay and credit for the scheduled value. This is why it is critical that when a guy/gal gets rerouted, they send the rotation to DALPA Scheduling so they can look to see if 23.M.7. was used and if so, they will make sure the skipped over pilot gets paid.
#4
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I wonder if we could start a thread on FB (to somewhat protect anonymity here) where folks can post flights that have already been canceled. When you get rerouted, you check the list to see if it’s been out there for days. If so, send the info into DALPA scheduling.
#6
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Something like this is a great idea. Getting paid for an illegal reroute results in big pay..Plus the whiteslip or greenslip bypassed from an illegal reroute gets paid out as well to someone.It adds up to a lot of cash going out to us..The Company has been giving these illegal reroutes for a long time(and it is much more prevalent now with what's going on) , and they are very difficult for pilots to track them to make sure it's legal.
#7
This is absolutely incorrect. Reroute is defined in Section 2 and Section 23. It has nothing to do with happening before or after sign-in. It is possible to be rerouted prior to sign-in, that’s why the contract prohibits it (with one exception).
#8
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Are reserve pilots considered rerouted if they are in the middle of a rotation and used to cover flying in open time? If that flight has been in open time for over 14 hours?
If yes, and CS made no attempt to cover that flight with a WS or GS, does the reserve pilot get RR pay and the passed over pilot get pay?
If yes, and CS made no attempt to cover that flight with a WS or GS, does the reserve pilot get RR pay and the passed over pilot get pay?
#9
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Are reserve pilots considered rerouted if they are in the middle of a rotation and used to cover flying in open time? If that flight has been in open time for over 14 hours?
If yes, and CS made no attempt to cover that flight with a WS or GS, does the reserve pilot get RR pay and the passed over pilot get pay?
If yes, and CS made no attempt to cover that flight with a WS or GS, does the reserve pilot get RR pay and the passed over pilot get pay?
#10
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 324
Is that considered a reroute for 23.N or 23.O coverage sequence?
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