I say we just let our mullets and staches get really out of hand and stick big league chew on the Douchey sign over the crew lounge door In JFK.

20 years this December, so not very long.

So Ed’s the sole reason we have had no meaningful progress the last 5 years? That guy wields a lot of power.

Not saying I disagree with you but, he is the CEO.

At the risk of this being labeled a ‘rant’, I’ll give my opinion.

Years ago, when SILs were historically 55 hours, the company proposed they be reduced to 40 hours. The company informed our MEC scheduling chairman of this. He proceeded to tell the MEC chairman this, as was his duty - ‘the scheduling committee chairman ‘acts at the direction of the MEC’. No direction was given. The MEC chairman did nothing, and made no attempt to renegotiate the amount. When the information was made public some time later it caused an uproar, and the MEC chairman, desperate to deflect the criticism of inaction, promptly fired the scheduling chairman, ie shot the messenger. This behavior caused a mass walkout by some 12 SMEs, and a lot of red faces in the MEC.
Fast forward to the VB debacle. These were pulled down by the Association, some say punitively, in retaliation for the SIL embarrassment.

We arrive at the latest SIL deal/no deal, withdrawn by the company, I believe punitively, for actions by the MEC including the VB pulldown.

Neither side is innocent, but I believe our Association fired the first shot, and has since maintained a confrontational, pugnacious and largely ineffectual stance, discouraging the company from attempting any dialog. Our MEC chooses to produce newsletters bemoaning the lack of cooperation by the company in lieu of getting results.

You asked how I think the company handled it. I think they handled it badly, stooping to the tit-for-tat pettiness that is the hallmark of this MEC administration. They’re better than that (and we are too) and I was and am disappointed.
My opinion, however the lack of progress is a fact.

Three separate issues all with different backgrounds. I don’t see them tied together.
The Scheduling Chairman should not have been fired.
VB’s were a concession that could be pulled. Any concession that can be removed painlessly - should be.
SILs were pulled to prevent a FA union from gaining more traction.

I also consider not volunteering for a pay cut on the way to possible bankruptcy to be progress.

You do realize that was a different MEC admin that did the SIL and VB thing, right?

I agree that the SIL LOA pulldown was probably partially due to the perception that it may help a FA union effort.

I wouldn’t consider a negotiated agreement as ‘volunteering’, but that’s semantics.
I also don’t consider not getting anything done as ‘progress’, but again, semantics.

I do. Bartels was sent packing in a coup d’etat and now we have Schnitzler. Different names, same approach. It’s not who’s behind the wheel, it’s the direction the bus is going.

Ah, so all the attempts at engaging the company to help in all this to which they have said no or not even responded count as that same direction?

Do you really believe that ‘all the attempts’ (one, according to the latest MEC communique) were selfless, philanthropic ‘attempts at engaging the company to help’?

Of course not. The Association wants things in return, and the company is not willing to give them, or, it seems, even talk about them. Why? Maybe, just maybe, it’s because of some of the reasons I’ve proposed.

Yes, I see it as the same direction. A direction charted and maintained by our MEC. If you had a belligerent, confrontational neighbor would you call him and ask to borrow his lawnmower? Or if he called and said he’s got a great deal for you would you be interested? Or even answer the phone at all?

I regret commenting on this thread. It’s political, and like all politics it becomes a matter of how people feel versus how things are. I’m probably way off base with my assumptions about how we got to where we are in negotiations with the company. Maybe the union is totally in the right and it’s all the company’s fault. I don’t know. But it sure seems like things have gotten a lot uglier in the past 5 years. I guess it’s just business.