Is this legit from Delta union?
05-23-2020, 07:59 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Widget Jet
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by Phins2right
Jump on something quick? Like what? I don't know if you are keepin' up with current events Tail, but the US economy is a ****show right now and won't be getting better. I read somewhere that there could be up to 10K pilots from the airlines hitting the streets come 10/1/2020 and that's not counting regional. Add to that the ~40 million unemployed right now - not a good market to be getting dumped into.
The C44 doom and gloom note was a BS move IMHO. Doesn't surprise me coming from surrender central - but I digress. That little disaster of a note was one to let sit overnight before hitting transmit. Pretty sure our pilots know the score and didn't need a LEC to remind them.
I would add that just because you were hired before 1 Dec 2016, you are not safe either. We have a long, ugly financial road ahead for this country. We ALL need to be working plans A,B and C.
The C44 doom and gloom note was a BS move IMHO. Doesn't surprise me coming from surrender central - but I digress. That little disaster of a note was one to let sit overnight before hitting transmit. Pretty sure our pilots know the score and didn't need a LEC to remind them.
I would add that just because you were hired before 1 Dec 2016, you are not safe either. We have a long, ugly financial road ahead for this country. We ALL need to be working plans A,B and C.
05-23-2020, 08:45 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 116
I really wish ALPA and the company would get together a bit more often and chat up some more solutions. For example, I'm surprised that neither one wants to broach the subject of being able to bid UNA. I think there are plenty of people who would rather bid UNA. You could even make an LOA that makes it inverse seniority awarded or some nonsense, but I think there are some people who are senior who might want to bid it. Folks who are on the cusp and don't want to train in something just to get furloughed would want it so they can just get job training instead of suffering another Atlanta summer for no reason. Sounds like what mil guys call terminal leave or something.
Also, what are the mechanics of UNA to new category. Does it have to be bid in AE or does a pilot get displaced from UNA as the need for pilots grows. An MD drives no seat lock, what if the first AE after being assigned UNA is a bunch of turds and the UNA pilot is forced to take a bite of the turd sandwich? Then two months later all of a sudden a jet said pilot wants opens up - can't do it because of a seat lock. Said pilot might also lose the opportunity for a paid move to a new base.
From the company perspective, if they can get senior pilots to volunteer for UNA, then you do save a bunch of training in the short term by being able to mete out training to our lowest paying categories and saving the bottom of the list from all disappearing in a great poof. Just a thought from a guy on the cusp who thinks 72-ish hours until October so I can try to find another job sounds like a good deal.
Also, what are the mechanics of UNA to new category. Does it have to be bid in AE or does a pilot get displaced from UNA as the need for pilots grows. An MD drives no seat lock, what if the first AE after being assigned UNA is a bunch of turds and the UNA pilot is forced to take a bite of the turd sandwich? Then two months later all of a sudden a jet said pilot wants opens up - can't do it because of a seat lock. Said pilot might also lose the opportunity for a paid move to a new base.
From the company perspective, if they can get senior pilots to volunteer for UNA, then you do save a bunch of training in the short term by being able to mete out training to our lowest paying categories and saving the bottom of the list from all disappearing in a great poof. Just a thought from a guy on the cusp who thinks 72-ish hours until October so I can try to find another job sounds like a good deal.
05-23-2020, 09:02 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by queuetip
I really wish ALPA and the company would get together a bit more often and chat up some more solutions. For example, I'm surprised that neither one wants to broach the subject of being able to bid UNA. I think there are plenty of people who would rather bid UNA. You could even make an LOA that makes it inverse seniority awarded or some nonsense, but I think there are some people who are senior who might want to bid it. Folks who are on the cusp and don't want to train in something just to get furloughed would want it so they can just get job training instead of suffering another Atlanta summer for no reason. Sounds like what mil guys call terminal leave or something.
Also, what are the mechanics of UNA to new category. Does it have to be bid in AE or does a pilot get displaced from UNA as the need for pilots grows. An MD drives no seat lock, what if the first AE after being assigned UNA is a bunch of turds and the UNA pilot is forced to take a bite of the turd sandwich? Then two months later all of a sudden a jet said pilot wants opens up - can't do it because of a seat lock. Said pilot might also lose the opportunity for a paid move to a new base.
From the company perspective, if they can get senior pilots to volunteer for UNA, then you do save a bunch of training in the short term by being able to mete out training to our lowest paying categories and saving the bottom of the list from all disappearing in a great poof. Just a thought from a guy on the cusp who thinks 72-ish hours until October so I can try to find another job sounds like a good deal.
Denny
05-23-2020, 10:03 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,836
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Phins....your post just doesn't make sense. You fault the council 44 communique, but then say nobody prior to 2016 is safe. There have been hundreds if not 1000s of posts on APC trying to parse unknowable numbers. But you also say, "pretty sure pilots know the score"
Dude....come on! A little common sense.
Dude....come on! A little common sense.
05-24-2020, 03:17 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,396
Originally Posted by gzsg
The nonpartisan CBO has projected Q3 growth of 23%. This is a staggering number.
Just passing information.
Just passing information.
05-24-2020, 03:24 AM
#26
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
If you start out with a penny, and then get another, you've just doubled your money...but still only have two cents. Impressive looking growth rates don't mean much if the starting point is so minimal.
05-24-2020, 03:25 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,908
Originally Posted by Tailhookah
Just trying to share a lesson I learned when 10k pilots were furloughed over a short period without any government support or furlough pay. Not trying to rub salt in anyone’s wound. Many of us have been there and just trying to help.
05-24-2020, 04:23 AM
#28
777 - ret
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: Waco CG-4 center seat
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Anyone who uses the word "communique" thinks way too much of themselves. You're not the Ambassador to Poland.
05-24-2020, 05:29 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 320B
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Tailhookah
I’ve watched the videos. Read the memos. Listened to Bob Smelzer try and explain the process. Read between the lines.
It’s been apparent to me for at least a week that they are putting 2500 in the UNA category. No secret there. The only question is if all 2500 are let go at once or if a big group is let go and the rest will be released in inverse seniority as their seat is retrained. I’d expect 1000 or more on 10/1. Then 30-50 a month after that.
It’ll give the company time to retrain and pause, stop or reverse as needed. Bottom line and a lesson I learned post 9/11... don’t wait guys. If you are in that group find something now. Take it. Get the leave from Delta and go before the music stops. US airline wide the music stops on 10/1. It’ll be too late then to easily find a job that will be filed by a pilot.
Unless you have a specialty like engineering and have time doing that trade, no one out there cares that you were an Airbus pilot. Our flying skills do not parlay into corporate America. I’m not trying to be a jerk. It’s the truth. I was NWA. I was furloughed over 5 years. I learned that if that were to ever happen to me again I’d find something quick and jump on it before there are thousands of you trying to do the same thing.
Mil guys... go back in AD. Full time. When you are recalled you and your number will transition to mil leave and your job will be waiting for you when you are done with orders or retire.
Hope it doesn’t last long fellas.
Tail...
It’s been apparent to me for at least a week that they are putting 2500 in the UNA category. No secret there. The only question is if all 2500 are let go at once or if a big group is let go and the rest will be released in inverse seniority as their seat is retrained. I’d expect 1000 or more on 10/1. Then 30-50 a month after that.
It’ll give the company time to retrain and pause, stop or reverse as needed. Bottom line and a lesson I learned post 9/11... don’t wait guys. If you are in that group find something now. Take it. Get the leave from Delta and go before the music stops. US airline wide the music stops on 10/1. It’ll be too late then to easily find a job that will be filed by a pilot.
Unless you have a specialty like engineering and have time doing that trade, no one out there cares that you were an Airbus pilot. Our flying skills do not parlay into corporate America. I’m not trying to be a jerk. It’s the truth. I was NWA. I was furloughed over 5 years. I learned that if that were to ever happen to me again I’d find something quick and jump on it before there are thousands of you trying to do the same thing.
Mil guys... go back in AD. Full time. When you are recalled you and your number will transition to mil leave and your job will be waiting for you when you are done with orders or retire.
Hope it doesn’t last long fellas.
Tail...
05-24-2020, 05:43 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by Tailhookah
I’ve watched the videos. Read the memos. Listened to Bob Smelzer try and explain the process. Read between the lines.
It’s been apparent to me for at least a week that they are putting 2500 in the UNA category. No secret there. The only question is if all 2500 are let go at once or if a big group is let go and the rest will be released in inverse seniority as their seat is retrained. I’d expect 1000 or more on 10/1. Then 30-50 a month after that.
It’ll give the company time to retrain and pause, stop or reverse as needed. Bottom line and a lesson I learned post 9/11... don’t wait guys. If you are in that group find something now. Take it. Get the leave from Delta and go before the music stops. US airline wide the music stops on 10/1. It’ll be too late then to easily find a job that will be filed by a pilot.
Unless you have a specialty like engineering and have time doing that trade, no one out there cares that you were an Airbus pilot. Our flying skills do not parlay into corporate America. I’m not trying to be a jerk. It’s the truth. I was NWA. I was furloughed over 5 years. I learned that if that were to ever happen to me again I’d find something quick and jump on it before there are thousands of you trying to do the same thing.
Mil guys... go back in AD. Full time. When you are recalled you and your number will transition to mil leave and your job will be waiting for you when you are done with orders or retire.
Hope it doesn’t last long fellas.
Tail...
It’s been apparent to me for at least a week that they are putting 2500 in the UNA category. No secret there. The only question is if all 2500 are let go at once or if a big group is let go and the rest will be released in inverse seniority as their seat is retrained. I’d expect 1000 or more on 10/1. Then 30-50 a month after that.
It’ll give the company time to retrain and pause, stop or reverse as needed. Bottom line and a lesson I learned post 9/11... don’t wait guys. If you are in that group find something now. Take it. Get the leave from Delta and go before the music stops. US airline wide the music stops on 10/1. It’ll be too late then to easily find a job that will be filed by a pilot.
Unless you have a specialty like engineering and have time doing that trade, no one out there cares that you were an Airbus pilot. Our flying skills do not parlay into corporate America. I’m not trying to be a jerk. It’s the truth. I was NWA. I was furloughed over 5 years. I learned that if that were to ever happen to me again I’d find something quick and jump on it before there are thousands of you trying to do the same thing.
Mil guys... go back in AD. Full time. When you are recalled you and your number will transition to mil leave and your job will be waiting for you when you are done with orders or retire.
Hope it doesn’t last long fellas.
Tail...
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