Originally Posted by sailingfun

That kind of change would be expensive for the company long term. What are you willing to give up for it because the company is going to demand equal value some where else.

Originally Posted by Gen6

As we wait for the official VEOP LOA and then a possible furlough mitigation LOA, how about an LOA that respects seniority on MD's from the MOAD? Why isn't our union asking that conversions for pay purposes go in systen wide seniority order? I understand that training availability will happen at different times based on sim availability. The pay conversion could be addressed similar to how VD's are. If there is 2000 guys junior to you your pay converts when the 2001st guy goes to training. There is no significant additional cost to the company so I can't imagine much push back from them. I am waiting to hear from the union how guys junior to other guys might not convert until May 2021 while others are already converted. They supposedly represent us all. They defended the MB proposal on fairness. Where are they now? If they hide behind the contract and say nothing can be done in the face of a significant inequity what good are they? Why isn't seniority respected or fought for in this case? How can we ever trust them? Since they say nothing its hard to say. Talk to your reps.

Originally Posted by Gen6

No argument with these things get overlooked. I also understand the contract. Hence the need for an LOA. The role of the union should always be to serve its membership. If your defense is "the contract" then dump the VEOP and any discussions of SIL'S, ALV reductions, furlough mitigation, etc.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Wow. I haven’t heard that since the Moak days. I think the fNWA guys made a lot of changes for the better in their position bidding system and got a negotiating credit for it.

Clearly a more efficient system benefits the company, assuming you have people doing the planning who can do more that simply what the guy ahead of them did.

Originally Posted by Gen6

Two people both displaced to same equipment from different equipment. Neither flying. One guy in training already. Other guy who is junior May of next year. Or two guys displaced from same equipment (1 is a Capt and other an FO) to same new equipment and same seat. The FO is junior to the Capt. Capt converts first. You are going to argue that is by choice?

Originally Posted by notEnuf

It’s how the contract works, the “choice“ was made in 2016. 80+% chose for me but that’s the way it goes in a democratic union.

Originally Posted by BobZ

maybe we need to set up our own chop zones in domiciles and make our demands known!!. 😆

Originally Posted by Gen6

Not at all. You go to training as specified in the contract. The junior guy in your current category on an MD goes to training before the senior guy. My point is we have people who are senior by hire converting in some cases by almost a year prior to more junior people based on which equipment they are coming off and what they are going to. Every MD is involuntary. My suggestion is to make your conversion for pay purposes happen in system seniority number. Say you converted yesterday but there are 1000 guys junior to you with later conversion dates your pay would convert after 1000 guys have been trained. The junior guy would convert for pay when the number trained equals his number even if he's still waiting for training. Company still gets to train as able. Pay is protected by seniority.

This isn't an issue for AE's since they are 100%voluntary. Contract covers that fairly adequately.
Single airframe carriers don't have this issue. Also banded pay would alleviate a lot of this but its never popular enough to get in the PWA.

Originally Posted by 20Fathoms

The Seattle Pilot’s Autonomous Zone? Sweet, I think I’ve already got a SPAZ sign somewhere.....