2558 Executive Hostages... sick times!
07-27-2020, 06:01 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Widget Jet
Posts: 765
Good MEC update. Although meeting with Ed regarding labor may not bear fruit. Delta guys can help here... didn’t Ed say when asked about pilot cuts during BK that he lost sleep over not taking more????
This whole issue is systemic. The anti union mentality does not stop at JL. This has all been organized from the top. The quicker everyone realizes that the better for us.
Alpa is the only one pilots have here that are looking out for us. Thank goodness. Alpa is not perfect. And I’m one to criticize Alpa at times, but I do back Alpa. I do back the PAC. I do vote. I do participate with my LEC reps, good and bad.
In the end, without Alpa we’d be flying big RJs around the lower 48... that’s the truth.
This whole issue is systemic. The anti union mentality does not stop at JL. This has all been organized from the top. The quicker everyone realizes that the better for us.
Alpa is the only one pilots have here that are looking out for us. Thank goodness. Alpa is not perfect. And I’m one to criticize Alpa at times, but I do back Alpa. I do back the PAC. I do vote. I do participate with my LEC reps, good and bad.
In the end, without Alpa we’d be flying big RJs around the lower 48... that’s the truth.
07-27-2020, 06:33 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 94
Everyone is capable of doing the math and I’m sure most have, but I thought I’d share my thoughts.
2558 furloughs = ~600 million savings over 18 months which is roughly 22 days of liquidity at current spending rate
DAL 5 year avg stock buyback 453 million.
IMHO nothing we do changes managements strategy.
Management has their Sundae they are just trying to get the cherry!
2558 furloughs = ~600 million savings over 18 months which is roughly 22 days of liquidity at current spending rate
DAL 5 year avg stock buyback 453 million.
IMHO nothing we do changes managements strategy.
Management has their Sundae they are just trying to get the cherry!
07-27-2020, 06:39 PM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: Concourse A
Posts: 779
Originally Posted by Tailhookah
Been thinking about all that’s happened since March. First off it seemed to start well. We immediately reached out to the company for the April re-bid and that would’ve given us time to help negotiate continued relief w/ Delta. I was pleasantly surprised. That didn’t last long and it seemed we had gone back in time and all of those happy thoughts we all used to share on Profit Sharing Days of years past got flushed down the toilet in one quick flush. The early days of the rhetoric on skynet from JL and his cronies immediately changed. It was just a curt “we are not going to be offering SILs”... nothing more.
Since then it’s just been more of the same. They are using skynet to negotiate in public while shaming us for not taking an ALV cut. What always gets me though is that we are operating on an expired contract. A contract that was economical over 4 years ago, but not now. What if we had just signed a new contract in January or February? Would they be asking for us to take this “old” contract +ALV minus 15%?
It’s all optics and semantics guys. They are targeting us because historically they do that... we make the most, so just like the rest of the world the “richest” are asked for the biggest sacrifice. Have they taken any other group hostage via WARN notices? So there are 2558 UNA’s that are executive hostages... no other WARN notices have gone out. There is also not a push to ask other groups to give more.
It should absolutely tick off every pilot here, especially the 2558 who are executive hostages. It’s apparent that Delta can’t see past next week on this... 2558 of the future of Delta Air Lines are being held hostage. That’s just plain wrong. Meanwhile Alpa continues to offer many reduced cost or non-cost options for many different programs and ways to help Delta save large amounts of money. 1) USERRA relief 2) SILs 3) Voluntary paid leaves in many different increments 4) blank lines 5) Voluntary reduced pay lines for less days required to work... I’m sure there are more options being floated but everything I’ve heard or seen is plain NO. ALV - 15% for NO furlough/1yr. If they can do that (which I don’t trust them 1 iota) then we can agree to a package of items to help save pay.
They only thing they want is ALV - 15%. I have major trust issues that quickly got dusted off after the SILs debacle in March.
I think we continue to stay the course. We are on an expired contract which has offered great savings to where we should’ve been. We don’t give a cent. Period. I’m all for offering the items above. But we’ve all learned (if you know the history of labor) that if we give them a cent, they’ll take a dollar and will later ask for more.
Had JL honored the SILs agreement in March, I’d personally be more inclined to offer more help. But how many times does someone have to be treated badly before they say enough! I am at enough!
How about the rest of you and what have you all heard from the line?
Since then it’s just been more of the same. They are using skynet to negotiate in public while shaming us for not taking an ALV cut. What always gets me though is that we are operating on an expired contract. A contract that was economical over 4 years ago, but not now. What if we had just signed a new contract in January or February? Would they be asking for us to take this “old” contract +ALV minus 15%?
It’s all optics and semantics guys. They are targeting us because historically they do that... we make the most, so just like the rest of the world the “richest” are asked for the biggest sacrifice. Have they taken any other group hostage via WARN notices? So there are 2558 UNA’s that are executive hostages... no other WARN notices have gone out. There is also not a push to ask other groups to give more.
It should absolutely tick off every pilot here, especially the 2558 who are executive hostages. It’s apparent that Delta can’t see past next week on this... 2558 of the future of Delta Air Lines are being held hostage. That’s just plain wrong. Meanwhile Alpa continues to offer many reduced cost or non-cost options for many different programs and ways to help Delta save large amounts of money. 1) USERRA relief 2) SILs 3) Voluntary paid leaves in many different increments 4) blank lines 5) Voluntary reduced pay lines for less days required to work... I’m sure there are more options being floated but everything I’ve heard or seen is plain NO. ALV - 15% for NO furlough/1yr. If they can do that (which I don’t trust them 1 iota) then we can agree to a package of items to help save pay.
They only thing they want is ALV - 15%. I have major trust issues that quickly got dusted off after the SILs debacle in March.
I think we continue to stay the course. We are on an expired contract which has offered great savings to where we should’ve been. We don’t give a cent. Period. I’m all for offering the items above. But we’ve all learned (if you know the history of labor) that if we give them a cent, they’ll take a dollar and will later ask for more.
Had JL honored the SILs agreement in March, I’d personally be more inclined to offer more help. But how many times does someone have to be treated badly before they say enough! I am at enough!
How about the rest of you and what have you all heard from the line?
agreed, these are my sentiments as well.
07-27-2020, 07:42 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by Drum
Extend? No. FU. It'll be fly the contract for me. Nothing more.
07-28-2020, 02:33 AM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by FL370esq
You will for now. When you have a bunch of years past you and you are getting a $40k profit sharing check, your motivation will come back. However, you will (should) remember that the Delta family only exists during the good times. You are merely an expense when things go badly.
I'm a retired military guy. There's only one thing that will get me to turn on someone - loss of trust. Trust defined us as a profession of arms - it had to be that way. Violate the trust = outcast. You can never really get that back.
No, what I said is gonna carry thru. Again, can't speak to others. Management violated the trust. They reap what they sow.
07-28-2020, 05:37 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Up front
Posts: 962
The LAUGHTER you hear is really crying because the whole operation is so GUMMED up it BURNS.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
07-28-2020, 05:58 AM
#28
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by Falcon20
The LAUGHTER you hear is really crying because the whole operation is so GUMMED up it BURNS.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
07-28-2020, 06:12 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2020
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Falcon20
The LAUGHTER you hear is really crying because the whole operation is so GUMMED up it BURNS.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
The Chairman update was great and hopefully cooler heads and honesty prevails in our negotiations. I now understand why there were so many guys that only did the bare minimum when times were good. The actions of the leaders in flight ops will be hard to forget. While the names may change it is likely that the system will just replace them with more of the same.
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