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Old 07-27-2020, 06:50 AM   #1  
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Default 2558 Executive Hostages... sick times!

Been thinking about all that’s happened since March. First off it seemed to start well. We immediately reached out to the company for the April re-bid and that would’ve given us time to help negotiate continued relief w/ Delta. I was pleasantly surprised. That didn’t last long and it seemed we had gone back in time and all of those happy thoughts we all used to share on Profit Sharing Days of years past got flushed down the toilet in one quick flush. The early days of the rhetoric on skynet from JL and his cronies immediately changed. It was just a curt “we are not going to be offering SILs”... nothing more.

Since then it’s just been more of the same. They are using skynet to negotiate in public while shaming us for not taking an ALV cut. What always gets me though is that we are operating on an expired contract. A contract that was economical over 4 years ago, but not now. What if we had just signed a new contract in January or February? Would they be asking for us to take this “old” contract +ALV minus 15%?

It’s all optics and semantics guys. They are targeting us because historically they do that... we make the most, so just like the rest of the world the “richest” are asked for the biggest sacrifice. Have they taken any other group hostage via WARN notices? So there are 2558 UNA’s that are executive hostages... no other WARN notices have gone out. There is also not a push to ask other groups to give more.

It should absolutely tick off every pilot here, especially the 2558 who are executive hostages. It’s apparent that Delta can’t see past next week on this... 2558 of the future of Delta Air Lines are being held hostage. That’s just plain wrong. Meanwhile Alpa continues to offer many reduced cost or non-cost options for many different programs and ways to help Delta save large amounts of money. 1) USERRA relief 2) SILs 3) Voluntary paid leaves in many different increments 4) blank lines 5) Voluntary reduced pay lines for less days required to work... I’m sure there are more options being floated but everything I’ve heard or seen is plain NO. ALV - 15% for NO furlough/1yr. If they can do that (which I don’t trust them 1 iota) then we can agree to a package of items to help save pay.

They only thing they want is ALV - 15%. I have major trust issues that quickly got dusted off after the SILs debacle in March.

I think we continue to stay the course. We are on an expired contract which has offered great savings to where we should’ve been. We don’t give a cent. Period. I’m all for offering the items above. But we’ve all learned (if you know the history of labor) that if we give them a cent, they’ll take a dollar and will later ask for more.

Had JL honored the SILs agreement in March, I’d personally be more inclined to offer more help. But how many times does someone have to be treated badly before they say enough! I am at enough!

How about the rest of you and what have you all heard from the line?
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:20 AM   #2  
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What you said rings true. Had they offered SILs back in the spring, then offered various other voluntary programs, and then early outs, I might have been more inclined to help if the voluntary programs didn't save enough money. But the order of the various programs seems all backward - the GOAL seems to furlough pilots, rather than save money.

Who puts out a displacement bid BEFORE they offer an early out??

Now they have this bid they can't train, with a decent portion who were displaced on paper but now will be leavings before their displacement. So to keep the widebodies flying (assuming the senior people leaving are on wide bodies) they will likely have to put out an AE to fill the spots that they just got rid of.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:30 AM   #3  
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As one of the 2,558 being held hostage, it’s caused a lot of stress and anxiety that could have been avoided. It’s creating a deep frustration with the company I’ve been dreaming to work for for so long.

If they offered even 50% paid leaves I could have takin it and supplemented with work in another opportunity for a year. Saving the company money. Those alone on unpaid leave won’t be enough. I’ve turned down opportunities because of the lack of options we have.


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Old 07-27-2020, 07:32 AM   #4  
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The SIL Reneg (yes, they abided by the letter, but not the intent of the agreement) and JLs continued apparent glee with "oh well, I guess we will keep on cutting" makes me not trust a darn thing they say.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:37 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iaflyer View Post
What you said rings true. Had they offered SILs back in the spring, then offered various other voluntary programs, and then early outs, I might have been more inclined to help if the voluntary programs didn't save enough money. But the order of the various programs seems all backward - the GOAL seems to furlough pilots, rather than save money.

Who puts out a displacement bid BEFORE they offer an early out??

Now they have this bid they can't train, with a decent portion who were displaced on paper but now will be leavings before their displacement. So to keep the widebodies flying (assuming the senior people leaving are on wide bodies) they will likely have to put out an AE to fill the spots that they just got rid of.
Exactly my friend... company always hints about optics. Their optics are horrible on this. Like you said, everything was backwards and the optics on that, along with the 2558 WARN hostage letters, point to pilot targeting. No one else in the company has had ANY deal or promise of no furloughs for a year.

This whole endeavor has been textbook labor bullying. Nothing makes sense (to us). Because they are using anti-labor techniques and those do not follow a nice, gentle and sensible path.

Many of us lived through the last black swan event. Most of us know about it... now we need to remember what happened and use those memories of just how nasty and unfair of a situation that was... and use that to further bolster our desire to not let it happen again.

PS-Remember that true character only comes out during times of duress. All those times the company says great things about the pilots (During happy times) are mostly bull$h!^. Now JL has reminded us just what they think of us... cost units.

Last edited by Tailhookah; 07-27-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:47 AM   #6  
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...Those alone on unpaid leave won’t be enough. I’ve turned down opportunities because of the lack of options we have.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This nails it. The company “doesn’t” want to furlough but we will probably have to. “They” care... well if they really cared, they would understand the plight that potential furlough or furlough really has on someone. Especially in our industry and line of work. But there’s no empathy. Zero. While the people on the hostage list are passing up jobs that will keep them and their families whole, the company is playing Russian roulette with us and especially with the 2558... people don’t forget games like that. I never have after I watched 925 of my fellow pilots (and myself) get furloughed from NWA, while our hours were transferred to the 50 seaters under the guise of saving money... There never has been any and there never will be any empathy towards pilots. Most people think we are overpaid whiners, especially the executives of this company. The drive, mental ability, cost and sacrifice to complete the career track to become a pilot that those critics couldn’t have accomplished or were too lazy to even try. Don’t fall for the rhetoric that we are being inundated with from JL and the rest.
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Old 07-27-2020, 08:26 AM   #7  
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A great quote that is useful to understand our current plight...

Quote:
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed - and hence clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” And, “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.”

H.L. Mencken
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:10 AM   #8  
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Wait, so out of 90,000 employees, 2558 of the lowest paid pilots are the group that is going to break the spine of Delta Air Lines. Who’s buying this crap?
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:20 AM   #9  
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You mean 75,000 employees...probably 73,000 after our VEOP window closes.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:23 AM   #10  
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You mean 75,000 employees...probably 73,000 after our VEOP window closes.
Oh yeah.

Wait, so out of 73,000 employees, 2558 of the lowest paid pilots are the group that is going to break the spine of Delta Air Lines. Who’s buying this crap?
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