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Old 09-15-2020, 04:12 PM   #21  
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Originally Posted by Rooster435 View Post
Was there any discussion about the AE. Specifically on the reinstatements. Headed to training in a few weeks and wondering if they are going to waste everyone’s time by training people twice.
I think the general line from BS in Crew Resources on Skyhub was that if you're going to training in Sept, plan on going. After that, it depends on many factors (seniority, where you were in the MOAD, contractual obligations)
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:54 PM   #22  
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I think the general line from BS in Crew Resources on Skyhub was that if you're going to training in Sept, plan on going. After that, it depends on many factors (seniority, where you were in the MOAD, contractual obligations)
BS specifically said their desire is not to waste company resources. But some near training may not be able to be stopped. “Case-by-case”

As to the ALV discussion... Doesn’t everyone remember early on, how the mantra from nearly everyone was “I’ll work less, but not FOR less.” Now it’s FPTTLD from all but a few lone voices. The reason that changed is 100% due to company behavior, and the communication thereof.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:09 PM   #23  
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I’m all in favor of an ALV reduction: if it is part of the contract from here forward.

If the company wants to raise it again, they can buy it at the negotiating table. That’s the interest on the “loan”

If the company is serious about saving money, seems like they might take this “loan”.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:58 PM   #24  
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Notes:

-VEOP cost $900M (Easily paid for by the Cares 1 PPP)
-MEC has supposedly agreed to some small concessions in exchange for a few jobs saved and small “QOL” items.
-There is a recent proposal that supposedly is receiving some “positive conversions” with the negotiating committee that would mitigate all furloughs.
-777 is gone. There is no flying on it in November.
-We can not break even by years end if revenue does not pick up.
-JL’s streak of under quoting revenue/loads is on-going. EB said we are 30% at Noon. JL says it’s at 20% at 4pm. Follows a consistent pattern going back months.


On the Furlough elimination, in order to save almost 2,000 jobs for 2+ years, you are talking about a concession that would be wide, fairly deep, and lengthy. I suppose more to come with that. I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume a program like that would be “voluntary”.
Nice summary. Although one very important tidbit that no one has honed in on yet in this thread is the declaration of force majeure. They basically confirmed today that it’s declared on all parts of the PWA where it’s referenced. In regards to the furlough section, they said they can’t pick and choose when to use it, so it sounds like they’re applying it throughout the PWA. I’m expecting the MEC to respond to this as it affects much more than 1-month of furlough pay... (I.e. Scope, ALV/TLV etc.)
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:09 PM   #25  
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What gets me is that there are a few UNA/1941 guys who are not willing to give any temporary reductions to save jobs. I'm confused with those individuals.
Personally I just don’t trust management not to negatively manipulate the outcome of any agreement we might make with them. Everyone loves to throw around the words ‘ironclad,’ and ‘snapback,’ but have either of those things ever really happened? From what I can tell every time the pilot group has made an ‘ironclad’ agreement it hasn’t quite been so ironclad, and while things may snap down rather abruptly, it’s not once been a snap back... more like a years-long grudge match to eke back what was lost in an instant.

Plus management wanted targeted ALV reductions, not a blanket ALV reduction.

I’d just rather do something else for a couple years than possibly erode the PWA and have to endure the results of that for much longer. It’s not like being an airline pilot is the only job in existence.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:12 PM   #26  
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And here we go a prime example of someone who thinks it happened to me so its only fair it happens to you.... in case you haven't figured it out furloughs arent a right of passage, we all have been f'd by the industry more times then we can count. But IT HAS TO STOP SOMEWHERE WITH ONE GENERATION OF PILOTS
Do us at FedEx a favor and stay put. You come on our board with your pompous attitude and now I have seen numerous post from you backing huge concessions just to save your bacon. Thats not how this whole industry works feller. The contract is the contract and to berate your fellow crew-member because they are not willing to take massive concessions for you is childish. They are not “pulling the ladder up”. They have already had numerous kicks in the nads throughout the years. You bring this attitude to FedEx and I can guarantee you will get slapped down very quickly. No one at purple is going to bend over to save you either. Get off your high horse and realize that many have went through much tougher times than you have. Suck it up and act like a professional pilot and not a spoiled brat who wants a participation trophy.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:32 PM   #27  
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I’d just rather do something else for a couple years than possibly erode the PWA and have to endure the results of that for much longer. It’s not like being an airline pilot is the only job in existence.
My thoughts too. I never planned or intended for this to happen (nor did anyone else), but now that I've accepted that I'm getting furloughed, I'm kind of excited to go try something totally different for a couple years. Having a sugga-momma helps too.

After the VEOP, there's still something like 4500 pilots retiring in the next nine years. 1300 or so of those by the end of summer 2023 and almost 1900 by summer 2024. Short of Delta going belly up, all of us will be back on line in three years and personally, I want it to be the same (or better) job that I left. Our contract protects that future as long as those of you that stay don't negotiate it away while we're gone.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:01 AM   #28  
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From what I can tell every time the pilot group has made an ‘ironclad’ agreement it hasn’t quite been so ironclad, and while things may snap down rather abruptly, it’s not once been a snap back... more like a years-long grudge match to eke back what was lost in an instant.
Yup. Lost a week of vacation 15 years ago, and NEVER got it back... even during the insanely good times of extraordinary profitability. Just one example of a reset that affected not just us, but our industry peers at UAL and AA.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:57 AM   #29  
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Originally Posted by Noworkallplay View Post
Do us at FedEx a favor and stay put. You come on our board with your pompous attitude and now I have seen numerous post from you backing huge concessions just to save your bacon. Thats not how this whole industry works feller. The contract is the contract and to berate your fellow crew-member because they are not willing to take massive concessions for you is childish. They are not “pulling the ladder up”. They have already had numerous kicks in the nads throughout the years. You bring this attitude to FedEx and I can guarantee you will get slapped down very quickly. No one at purple is going to bend over to save you either. Get off your high horse and realize that many have went through much tougher times than you have. Suck it up and act like a professional pilot and not a spoiled brat who wants a participation trophy.
A cut in ALV is not a massive concession. In fact a ALV cut was probably in our opener to the company. Even with a 68 hour ALV a pilot could earn far more than our old 75 hour hard cap. Best of all when things return to normal it self corrects and no negotiating capital need be spent.
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Old 09-16-2020, 02:16 AM   #30  
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A cut in ALV is not a massive concession. In fact a ALV cut was probably in our opener to the company. Even with a 68 hour ALV a pilot could earn far more than our old 75 hour hard cap. Best of all when things return to normal it self corrects and no negotiating capital need be spent.
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. I hope it was in our opener.
And as mentioned by a previous poster, In our hypothetical scenario, if the company ever wanted to raise it again, they could negotiate for that.
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