Folks will lack the opportunity to have SILs at 55 hours because the company will never offer them. It’s not about under cutting each other, management’s stance is clear that SILs are not going to happen. They’ve been saying it for months now and there’s no reason to suspect their stance will change during this crisis. They have their leverage and don’t need to offer SILs. They’ll get the cost savings they need via other measures (voluntary or involuntary ALV cuts) or furloughs. I think SILs are extinct under the remainder of this CEO’s tenure.

As long as SILs are used by our industry peers, they will never be off the table. 1 CEO’s decision does not alter the entire negotiating landscape for US pilots. The mindset that we have to make a decision that falls within management’s newly created rule book is the first step towards losing any negotiation, Furlough mitigation or Sec 6.

My point is that they appear to be off the table for us as long as our current CEO is our CEO. At whatever point we get a new one, anything’s possible. But this one seems to cringe at the sound of the term. If you don’t believe me, watch the town hall. I wish it weren’t that way, I’d love to see us get industry standard.

As long as that CEO says no and our BOD backs him up, they are. EB has the means to achieve cost saving measures via furlough, if SILs are unreasonable to him there is nothing saying they have to be offered. It ****es me off no end how the company goes for optics over actual cost savings measures, but we can’t force them to be reasonable.

If the company’s choice is to offer us below industry average terms OR furlough, then that is a choice THEY have made. It is not then incumbent upon us to play in their sand box because “they said so”. Our union has a mandate through polling and pilot feedback to not accept or bring to a vote, a concessionary agreement. I’m speaking specifically about an agreement outside of 20-03, which was itself troublingly below industry standard, but not concessionary against our own PWA. One could argue that it was concessionary against our peer groups in the sense that pilots at other airlines are having 50 hour SIL opportunities that Delta pilots do not. Management knew that ALPA would have to make an agreement on voluntary options to show they’re willingness to prevent furloughs. Knowing how bad ALPA needed this, they negotiated an aggressive below industry average deal, and ALPA had to essentially take what they could get. Saving 220 jobs, while very real to those pilots, to some extent was symbolic. The deal was not generous enough to make a large impact on furloughs. ALPA got the optics of trying to save jobs. Management got the same, but also kept their “optics” for other groups intact by offering a minimally attractive package to pilots.

My point is that when management says SILs are off the table, we do not then just move on and accept this. We keep SILs on the table indefinitely because by drawing the line in the sand, management is committing to a position that is below industry standard and thus has handed us the leverage of being the more reasonable party. You lose a negotiation when you accept “norm” setting from your adversary.

That’s the same cringe I get when I hear concessions. First, do no harm.

I heard we can save another 220 jobs by creating a separate A350 captain B-scale that anyone can bid into. It’s all voluntary of course; you can still bid into the A-scale. So it’s not a concession. [sarcasm]

They are not off the table. We keep them on the table. That is one of our asks. Let them cringe away. Compared to our industry peers we are lagging. I don't blame DALPA, I know they are trying to make the best of the situation given the full blast proclamations by our management.

They can furlough too. Nothing stopping them. It will come down to their gamble on when we pull out of this klingon death spiral. Furlough too much, we get caught and end up with a training lag unable to spring at market share. You don't want to be last one out of the starting gate when this thing breaks. If they don't furlough, well it may hurt their bonuses. Either way the decision is theirs and theirs alone. We need to stand our ground.

Drum — perfectly said

And literally next week nothing is stopping them from Furloughing. They're keeping us on for a few extra votes for cost cutting, but they have to know not everyone will. 1721 pilots against the remaining 11k and change?

This is all a little goofy to me. The only thing i can think is bookings are up on the 90day and they need some of us more than they pretend.