TED74

If I'm locked in to a mortgage, two kids' college tuition payments, a private school bill and $8k/month in parental nursing care, am I greedy for trying to preserve at least 70% of my "normal" earnings to stay above water?

The only give was less overtime and profit sharing?! Do you happen to know any other pilots? What category were you in 2019, and what category are you in now.. or are you an oblivious/disingenuous CEO? You have to be smart enough to have heard about displacements, right? You probably grasp the difference between average and median, right? The point is, most of those of us remaining probably aren't making 200k in 2020. A to Bs abound because of the MOAD. Folks who lived in base now have 2-leg commutes and fund hotels they never budgeted for. NB Bs might actually make up the majority of our pilots right now, and UNAs are down at 717B rates. My hunch is half the list is under 10 years longevity. Fewer pilots are sub 200k than you probably think after 1700 voluntarily took well more than a 15% pay cut to walk.

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The company never sought a flat, uniform 15% ALV cut, and if you are paying attention you know they didn't even make that claim. They wanted an unknown ALV reduction (UP TO 15%), for an unknown duration (up to a year), in unspecified categories (all, some or none?), to save furloughs for an unknown duration (started at a year and subsequently went to less).


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Gone Flying

that can be a tough spot but there are plenty of people who are about to lose 100% of their income right now, what about the pilot with a kid with special needs who won’t be able to afford to help that child now? See how that works. Not trying to be a Richard, but 2000 families are about to experience an unbelievably painful upheaval, your senario seems more manageable with a 15% hours cut (hypothetical as the deal the MEC got would not be worth it) than a total loss of income for a typical family.


I’m UNA now about to be NBCFUR so I get pay cuts. while I know the MOAD was abysmal, the September AE did undo a lot of the damage from that ( not all damage but it did allow a lot of Bs to go back to As if they had more than 10 years here) personally the people I know here usually fall into 2 groups, pre 9/11 hires and people now on UNA. while it is anecdotal, everyone in the first group i know is on the same equipment in the same base as pre COVID (either they were not displaced or they got reinstated). I know this is not representative of everyone but of the people I regularly keep up with, all of them are relatively unchanged from pre COVID so my bad on that.

Regarding your comment about most not making 200k. Anyone who makes more than 222/ hr will clear this threshold based on the 900 hr/ year TLV floor. This is every captain regardless of longevity and a healthy majority of the WB Bs. about the only group that probably would not clear this are NB Bs and given the looming furloughs , something tells me the co will be running higher ALVs in those categories for a bit.

After furloughs and removing NBC pilots, we will have about ~9600 pilots next month about 5800 of whom will be As or WB Bs (rough count)

FWIW we have 7116 pre merger hires (including about 1000 07/08 hires) and 5774 post merger. Halfway up the list is a 01 PMNW hire or a 07 PMDL hire. You were close though we do have more post 9/11 hires than pre 9/11 hires

​​​​​​​I agree with the union not presenting this deal to us. The fact that it was a bad deal does not change the fact he can claim he offered it. My original statement was more along what Ed was going to say on CNBC in early November when he is bragging about saving all furloughs “except those greedy pilots”. actually after seeing that town hall I’m guessing he says disagreeable not greedy.

I should have been more clear, I’m not necessarily against your opinion, I was just looking at it from a different angle. Anyway cheers and hope to see you on the line whenever I can come back.

TED74

I appreciate your thoughts and I'm sorry for what you're going through. I'm actually not any of the above - just hypotheticals pointing out the exceptions to any kind of rule about who this pilot group is and what their covid circumstances might be. I find broad brushes to be pretty dangerous, but get that you were floating Ed's future messaging. In the end, obnoxious/ ignorant/misleading or otherwise, his public comments are luckily irrelevant. I just hope my pilot brethren don't embrace such hypotheticals as accurate or actionable.

Out of curiosity, I looked to see what it takes to break $222/hour. No NB F/Os hit that number at any longevity, including 7ER. WB F/Os get there on the 330, but not until year 9 (year 7 if you include international override). No one is going hungry, but my hunch is most Delta pilots will see significant income loss even in the absence of any ALV reduction. Should there be a 15% cut some day, it'll be on top of a considerable reduction from 2019... totalling perhaps 25-40% reduction from peoples' high water marks. Dave Ramsey might handle that without blinking, but I suspect most family budgets take notice. It should go without saying that that pales in comparison to furlough, but since this is the internet I need to acknowledge that fact with words. My point is not to say that 15% ALV drop is the same as furlough... only that when EB or others summarize the situation, the lack of context about pilot pay and sacrifice post-covid makes those comments misleading at best, and flat out lies at worst.

Gone Flying

I agree with most of what you said. It’s annoying we find ourselves in this situation but it is flat out devastating for some. I’m fortunately doing ok and have cut my budget significantly but I know pilots in the 1721 who this will be devastating for.

I posted this in another thread but there were probably win-win solutions to this, but once the egos of management (and ALPA to a lesser extent) got involved and it became about unions= bad, both sides have dug their heels in and now almost 2,000 of us will pay that price.

regarding the 222/hr, yes no NB bs hit that but all As do as do a majority of WB Bs. It would also not be a stretch to assume NB Bs will be working a lot more as we furlough a huge portion of that workforce. I still think at least 2/3 of DL pilots who are not taking LOAs or furloughed will clear that number in 2020. I could be wrong but that is what I’m thinking.

crazyjaydawg

Looks like Ed just sold 65,000 shares, worth about $2.182 million.

Nice of him to take a pay cut, good thing he did all those stock buy backs!

notEnuf

That transaction took place on Thursday the 22nd of October. Coincidently that’s the same day he called the MEC disagreeable. What does he know that might cause him to sell on that day?

beis77

Best guess is that he was betting CARES wasn’t happening before the election. We just saw the near finality of that yesterday and the market dropped a few points. He probably wanted to sell higher before the main stream media picked it up and ran with it. After all, he said he’s been talking to Congress, so he likely has a better idea of what’s going on than the media.

Either that or maybe he’s leaving sooner than any of us realize?

I don’t know, just spit balling.

D B Cooper

Probably had to buy an engagement ring for a FA. Heard if I you buy 3 at a time you get a discount.

notEnuf

If he thinks he has to announce pilot furloughs on November 1, this puts him a week ahead of the rush and outside any insider prohibition window.

https://www.secform4.com/insider-trading/27904.htm

Jaww

Doesn’t stock price typically go up when furloughs announced?