Notices

Capped Res Days

Old 12-27-2020, 11:31 AM
  #51  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,393
Default

Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
I have been denied a legal swap by the automated system so it can happen. In my case I was trying to swap the exact same 6 day trip I had to one day later and schedules for the following month were not yet out so it was impossible for me to be illegal. Coverage was double required. Crew scheds refused to see my logic on the issue so I handed it to the union. I got assignment pay for a 40 hour 6 day trip and strangely 2 payback days. Not a bad deal. Never did hear the exact issue but they claimed it was some type of coding error. On another occasion I was again denied a legal swap and it was caused by a error in how crew scheds built the rotation. Since the rotation had some type of violation built into it the system refused to award it. They fixed the issue and I was manually awarded the swap.
Those are good examples of why it is still a good idea to ask questions when something seems fishy. Years ago we (ALPA) got a pilot pay protected for a WS that went to a junior guy that he should have been awarded. Reason: a software error didn't even show him as legal for the trip, even though he was. Company stonewalled for awhile but finally paid the pilot and fixed the issue.

But in this instance and yours, it was errors in the implementation, not the correct contractual language, that caused the faulty denials.
Herkflyr is offline  
Old 12-27-2020, 03:00 PM
  #52  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,114
Default

Originally Posted by Herkflyr View Post
Both. For starters I was able to do a short notice same day for same day 2-day swap last month when we (ATL 320A) were (and still are) critically understaffed. I was surprised no one white slipped it, but no one did, and the swap was granted--exactly as I had hoped.

But reread the SRH, specifically the boldfaced second paragraph under the header The Basics, which states--in boldprint and italics no less--"Days on which A is equal to R do NOT require a day that is worse off with respect to reserve coverage. Note the Thanksgiving/Christmas exception below."

Page 38 in Aerodocs, page 35 on the actual bottom of the page.

In other words, same day for same day swaps will always be granted if legal, because the A and R numbers are unchanged when you swap trips.

Edit: the paragraph below what I posted already explains it even better. "Overlapping days in a SWP...are not considered for purposes of reserves coverage."
The bolded part ONLY applies when the reserves available (A) is exactly the same as reserves required (R), not when the numbers add up to the same. I stand by what I said earlier. Once A is less than R, you have to do the math.
waldo135 is offline  
Old 12-27-2020, 03:44 PM
  #53  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,393
Default

Originally Posted by waldo135 View Post
The bolded part ONLY applies when the reserves available (A) is exactly the same as reserves required (R), not when the numbers add up to the same. I stand by what I said earlier. Once A is less than R, you have to do the math.
That was a mistake on my part to quote that language (you are correct) but this language right after that certainly applies: All emphasis items are mine, to reiterate:

Only the day(s) on which a pilot will be off if the requested transaction is awarded (Day(s) to Be Dropped), and only the day(s) on which a pilot will be working if the requested transaction is awarded (Day(s) to Be Added) are considered. Overlapping days in a SWP or X-day move transaction (days on which a pilot will be working either way) are not considered for purposes of reserves coverage.
Herkflyr is offline  
Old 12-29-2020, 02:53 AM
  #54  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,114
Default

Originally Posted by Herkflyr View Post
That was a mistake on my part to quote that language (you are correct) but this language right after that certainly applies: All emphasis items are mine, to reiterate:

Only the day(s) on which a pilot will be off if the requested transaction is awarded (Day(s) to Be Dropped), and only the day(s) on which a pilot will be working if the requested transaction is awarded (Day(s) to Be Added) are considered. Overlapping days in a SWP or X-day move transaction (days on which a pilot will be working either way) are not considered for purposes of reserves coverage.
I yield...
waldo135 is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 04:30 PM
  #55  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,488
Default

Resurrecting this thread...

I have a day for day swap request in. I called scheduling to ask if it would get processed and they said no. Their reason was reserve coverage was not adequate.

I’ve read through this entire thread, the SRH and PWA. I still don’t understand if my swap will be granted. It doesn’t violate any of the things herk mentioned. It literally covers the exact same days. The only question would be if MEX is a SAQ field and would require me to stay on it. I have never been there and just looked in the SAQ section of aerodocs and doesn’t look like it requires any special training.

Any bets on if my swap gets awarded? I’ll gladly let anyone that has commented here with personal experience look at my schedule and see if it’s legit. Just shoot me a PM.
fishforfun is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 05:04 PM
  #56  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 73na
Posts: 286
Default

Originally Posted by fishforfun View Post
Resurrecting this thread...

I have a day for day swap request in. I called scheduling to ask if it would get processed and they said no. Their reason was reserve coverage was not adequate.

I’ve read through this entire thread, the SRH and PWA. I still don’t understand if my swap will be granted. It doesn’t violate any of the things herk mentioned. It literally covers the exact same days. The only question would be if MEX is a SAQ field and would require me to stay on it. I have never been there and just looked in the SAQ section of aerodocs and doesn’t look like it requires any special training.

Any bets on if my swap gets awarded? I’ll gladly let anyone that has commented here with personal experience look at my schedule and see if it’s legit. Just shoot me a PM.
23.H.5.g-You can’t drop a trip within 96 hours if a LCP/LVP has been assigned to your trip. You do have to have adult supervision in and out of MEX your first time. (AM 9.1.1.7, level 2)
Omar 111 is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 05:23 PM
  #57  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,488
Default

Originally Posted by Omar 111 View Post
23.H.5.g-You can’t drop a trip within 96 hours if a LCP/LVP has been assigned to your trip. You do have to have adult supervision in and out of MEX your first time. (AM 9.1.1.7, level 2)
Im seeing this as a Capt requirement but not an FO. The Capt I’m with is not a LCP. At least not designated as such on the rotation.
fishforfun is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 06:03 PM
  #58  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 73na
Posts: 286
Default

Originally Posted by fishforfun View Post
Im seeing this as a Capt requirement but not an FO. The Capt I’m with is not a LCP. At least not designated as such on the rotation.
Sorry, assumed you were a captain! I revise my answer to I have no idea!
Omar 111 is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 06:16 PM
  #59  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,488
Default

Originally Posted by Omar 111 View Post
Sorry, assumed you were a captain! I revise my answer to I have no idea!
It worked! Reserve days were 20+ required and 0 available for both days (bigger issues to discuss
there) but the trip foot prints fell exactly inside of the same days. I have some faith restored in our system. After reading this thread over again after putting the swap in I put my odds about 50/50 of it working.
fishforfun is offline  
Old 04-12-2021, 06:26 PM
  #60  
Gets Weekends Off
 
FangsF15's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,059
Default

Not sure if this helps, but if the days both negative, but are "less bad" on the day you are wanting to move (thus leaving the company with a less bad situation), the move will usually go though. If the days are the same, it's a crap shoot, but apparently worked for you. Always good to have data points...
FangsF15 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mispoken
Delta
36
01-17-2019 07:39 AM
Da40Pilot
Regional
59
01-13-2015 07:20 AM
Moombabeach
United
15
04-08-2014 05:50 AM
bugga
Foreign
25
03-19-2007 11:32 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices