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Old 01-10-2021, 04:11 AM   #331  
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Originally Posted by Phins2right View Post
Knew one of you would latch on to the "afraid". I was simply using the word as it was in the question.

I am highly suspect and not confident in its efficacy. The fact you have paid to promote advocates from the "mayo clinic" telling you its ok is cause for alarm. You're not in the medical field so you don't know these people or what motivates them.

The first lie they told you is the vaccine was "approved". It is not. MMR is approved, yellow fever is approved, small pox is approved. The aforementioned vaccines underwent the requisite trials and testing. The china flu vax is approved under EMERGENCY authorization for use only. Nothing more. This is not a subtle difference either.

Again, you can put that crap in your body. Not required for a bug that is .002% lethal. Yet you are jumping at the opportunity. Then again, I don't have anyone lording over me to take either.

Smarter people than you are choosing not to take the vax. That should open your eyes.

Good luck.
This is one of your most reasonable posts Iíve seen in a while, so it seems retirement is treating you well.

If not for the vaccine, what is the answer? Being fully open doesnít seem to be working, admittedly an under prepared infrastructure is part of the problem.

A under tested vaccine has its risks, but on my risk matrix it appears to be the quickest least risky way to resume normal life.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:48 AM   #332  
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Originally Posted by Phins2right View Post
Knew one of you would latch on to the "afraid". I was simply using the word as it was in the question.

I am highly suspect and not confident in its efficacy. The fact you have paid to promote advocates from the "mayo clinic" telling you its ok is cause for alarm. You're not in the medical field so you don't know these people or what motivates them.

The first lie they told you is the vaccine was "approved". It is not. MMR is approved, yellow fever is approved, small pox is approved. The aforementioned vaccines underwent the requisite trials and testing. The china flu vax is approved under EMERGENCY authorization for use only. Nothing more. This is not a subtle difference either.

Again, you can put that crap in your body. Not required for a bug that is .002% lethal. Yet you are jumping at the opportunity. Then again, I don't have anyone lording over me to take either.

Smarter people than you are choosing not to take the vax. That should open your eyes.

Good luck.

If you werenít afraid of the vaccine, you wouldnít have a problem getting it.

Iím not afraid of either, but my risk assessment tells me Iíd rather risk the possibility of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine than risk transmitting COVID to someone who might be severely affected by it.

So far the death count from the vaccine is zero, so I think itís a safe bet. If you donít agree, thatís fine, but try just once to resist crapping on other people that disagree with you. Itís hard, but based on your posts youíre a badass so Iím sure you can pull it off if you put your mind to it.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:14 AM   #333  
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Not required for a bug that is .002% lethal.
Do you have a source for this statistic or are we STILL having trouble understanding how percentages work?
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:39 AM   #334  
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I was thinking about Florida Dr. Gregory Michael's possible death due to an adverse COVID vaccine reaction, which is being investigated with no firm conclusions yet established.

Even if his death is directly attributable to the COVID vaccine...that'd make odds of death from adverse vaccine reaction what, 1 in 5,000,000?

Compare that to the odds of dying from COVID. Based on the 9 Jan update to the CDC COVID Data Tracker, CFR is 1.68%; consider the CDC's estimate of 8 actual infections to every confirmed positive and you'd get an IFR of 0.21%.

Across all demographics, that'd make odds of death from COVID 1 in 476.

Of course, not all demographics are equal with regards to COVID outcomes. Looking at reported CDC demographics for cases and deaths, and considering the CDC's estimate of actual vs confirmed positive cases, the odds of death from COVID for the 0-49 age demographic is 1 in 6859.

While I understand the reluctance some may have to be an 'early adopter' of a new type of vaccine due to the unknown...given the scientifically-determined efficacy of mRNA vaccines established via historical methods, the math seems to make vaccination a fairly straightforward value proposition.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:54 AM   #335  
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I was thinking about Florida Dr. Gregory Michael's possible death due to an adverse COVID vaccine reaction, which is being investigated with no firm conclusions yet established.

Even if his death is directly attributable to the COVID vaccine...that'd make odds of death from adverse vaccine reaction what, 1 in 5,000,000?

Compare that to the odds of dying from COVID. Based on the 9 Jan update to the CDC COVID Data Tracker, CFR is 1.68%; consider the CDC's estimate of 8 actual infections to every confirmed positive and you'd get an IFR of 0.21%.

Across all demographics, that'd make odds of death from COVID 1 in 476.

Of course, not all demographics are equal with regards to COVID outcomes. Looking at reported CDC demographics for cases and deaths, and considering the CDC's estimate of actual vs confirmed positive cases, the odds of death from COVID for the 0-49 age demographic is 1 in 6859.

While I understand the reluctance some may have to be an 'early adopter' of a new type of vaccine due to the unknown...given the scientifically-determined efficacy of mRNA vaccines established via historical methods, the math seems to make vaccination a fairly straightforward value proposition.
don't let facts get in the way of Phins' politics.

If Trump from day 1 had said "wear a mask, do your part, be a good American" then we would be in a lot better place.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:40 AM   #336  
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Originally Posted by GucciBoy View Post
If you werenít afraid of the vaccine, you wouldnít have a problem getting it.

Iím not afraid of either, but my risk assessment tells me Iíd rather risk the possibility of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine than risk transmitting COVID to someone who might be severely affected by it.

So far the death count from the vaccine is zero, so I think itís a safe bet. If you donít agree, thatís fine, but try just once to resist crapping on other people that disagree with you. Itís hard, but based on your posts youíre a badass so Iím sure you can pull it off if you put your mind to it.
Weíre told getting vaccinated doesnít keep you from spreading it, only from getting infected yourself, just like having the antibodies may not keep you from being a carrier. Iíd say people who feel theyíre at risk should take responsibility and get vaccinated and take precautions, and not fall into the trap of depending on someone elseís actions keeping them safe.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:44 AM   #337  
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, but try just once to resist crapping on other people that disagree with you. Itís hard, but based on your posts youíre a badass so Iím sure you can pull it off if you put your mind to it.
Do you see the irony?
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:46 AM   #338  
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Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator View Post
Weíre told getting vaccinated doesnít keep you from spreading it, only from getting infected yourself, just like having the antibodies may not keep you from being a carrier. Iíd say people who feel theyíre at risk should take responsibility and get vaccinated and take precautions, and not fall into the trap of depending on someone elseís actions keeping them safe.
So.... Follow the logic on this idea.
IF you are healthy and would rather risk the illness than get vaccinated, you are actually doing a service to society. As a vaccinated person, you could be spreading it without knowing you are a carrier. If you aren't vaccinated, you would know you have the illness and could take precautions to prevent transmission.

Argue amongst yourselves and please include Dr (Mrs) Phins in the debate.
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:05 AM   #339  
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If Trump AND THE CDC AND FAUCI from day 1 had said "wear a mask, do your part, be a good American" then we would be in a lot better place.

Made it more "ALL INCLUSIVE" in an attempt to fairly represent what really happened from "day 1"
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:10 AM   #340  
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If Trump from day 1 had said "wear a mask, do your part, be a good American" then we would be in a lot better place.
I do not disagree.

HOWEVER

Drs. Fauci and Adams are not blameless on mask messaging to the public. BOTH told the public ďthereís no need to wear a mask if you arenít sickĒ. The message changed months later, ostensibly due to ďnew scienceĒ but Fauci said in the media the initial statement was made to prevent a run on scarce PPE by the general public.

That was an admission of something known as ďa lieĒ.

It was a conscious decision on their parts to lie to the American public, and ABSOLUTELY contributed to some people questioning the credibility of public health officials/statements to this very day.

And yes, whenever and why-ever the message changed on masks, it would have been very helpful for Trump to embrace them as simple mitigation to keep the economy open.
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