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Old 01-02-2021, 09:18 PM   #31  
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Poor choice of wording on my part. What I meant is that Delta should not be pulled into the cargo whipsaw game by positioning ourselves to be forced to lower costs to compete. If Amazon is in desperate need of increased air freight options then they should know what using Delta will cost them.
That sounds like a good argument for why dedicated cargo flying might not be for us. Outside of FedEx and UPS (which are delivery companies that have aircraft rather than air cargo operations), the compensation for cargo carriers is not what Delta pilots have become accustomed to. If we offered to do any all cargo flying at comparable rates to other carriers doing the same flying the company might change their calculus, but we would not be inclined to even consider that.

I would love for us to have an air cargo operation and even an Anchorage base again, but it's more than just a matter of carriers surviving operating 747-400s.
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:35 PM   #32  
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That sounds like a good argument for why dedicated cargo flying might not be for us. Outside of FedEx and UPS (which are delivery companies that have aircraft rather than air cargo operations), the compensation for cargo carriers is not what Delta pilots have become accustomed to. If we offered to do any all cargo flying at comparable rates to other carriers doing the same flying the company might change their calculus, but we would not be inclined to even consider that.

I would love for us to have an air cargo operation and even an Anchorage base again, but it's more than just a matter of carriers surviving operating 747-400s.
100% and explained it better than I.
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:56 AM   #33  
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Delta announced today it sold another 7 767’s to Amazon. This is on top of the 3 767’s that Delta sold to Amazon last week.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/05/amaz...pyToPasteboard

After this sale, how many 767’s will Delta have left?
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:35 PM   #34  
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Amazon is vertically integrating their business. Today it's a few used airplanes. Tomorrow they buy CVG and turn it into a cargo hub that rivals SDF and MEM. They already have fleets of delivery vehicles in most major metro markets. Amazon is on pace to deliver 6.5 Billion packages next year. For reference, UPS delivers 5.5 Billion packages per year.

Amazon grew from an online book retailer to a WalMart competitor.
Amazon Web Services used their expertise in managing gigantic networks to become one of the worlds largest cloud computing providers rivaling Google and Microsoft.
Who thinks their in house air cargo will grow to compete with FedEx and UPS?
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:24 AM   #35  
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Amazon is vertically integrating their business. Today it's a few used airplanes. Tomorrow they buy CVG and turn it into a cargo hub that rivals SDF and MEM. They already have fleets of delivery vehicles in most major metro markets. Amazon is on pace to deliver 6.5 Billion packages next year. For reference, UPS delivers 5.5 Billion packages per year.

Amazon grew from an online book retailer to a WalMart competitor.
Amazon Web Services used their expertise in managing gigantic networks to become one of the worlds largest cloud computing providers rivaling Google and Microsoft.
Who thinks their in house air cargo will grow to compete with FedEx and UPS?

Amazon will focus first on their ongoing build out to completely service their network. They will do this until all kinks are worked out and they have complete coverage with little or no service failures. Then when they have the network, the procedures worked out, and the excess capacity, they will set out to crush UPS and Fedex. Both of those companies completely screwed Amazon in the early 2010s and dropped the ball on a bunch of Christmas deliveries and caused tons of customer service problems. Amazon made the decision to build out their own systems at that time and have been moving at a rapid pace to get it done.

They want all of their operations in house because they feel that no other company will serve their customers as well as they will.
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:41 PM   #36  
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It was easy to blame FedEx and UPS in the past when it was Amazon that over promised its customers.

Funny that we did not hear anything bad about Amazon deliveries this Christmas. If our orders and orders of other family members are a measure of how it went, Amazon failed big time. Won’t hear any negative press though. Wonder how that works!
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:34 PM   #37  
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It was easy to blame FedEx and UPS in the past when it was Amazon that over promised its customers.

Funny that we did not hear anything bad about Amazon deliveries this Christmas. If our orders and orders of other family members are a measure of how it went, Amazon failed big time. Won’t hear any negative press though. Wonder how that works!

This^^^

They botched some of our's as well. But as you stated, heaven forbid you hear about their failures.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:39 PM   #38  
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Amazon will focus first on their ongoing build out to completely service their network. They will do this until all kinks are worked out and they have complete coverage with little or no service failures. Then when they have the network, the procedures worked out, and the excess capacity, they will set out to crush UPS and Fedex. Both of those companies completely screwed Amazon in the early 2010s and dropped the ball on a bunch of Christmas deliveries and caused tons of customer service problems. Amazon made the decision to build out their own systems at that time and have been moving at a rapid pace to get it done.

They want all of their operations in house because they feel that no other company will serve their customers as well as they will.
HA. Serve their customers! Amazon is a terrible employer and this is nothing more than gaining leverage to control their costs. They take their money from all of the stock investors, see side hustle thread, and use it to control a new aspect of their business. Then they automate it as much as possible and put as many of their employees on gig employee hour contracts and pay zero benefits. “Free Shipping” ain’t free, society just hasn’t seen what it costs yet.

If you want to see aviation automated, buy stuff on Amazon.
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:39 PM   #39  
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Don't shoot the messenger folks. I know an executive in their transportation operation and am simply giving you their view. If you don't believe me look at their trucking operations. They are three years ahead of their aviation operation with trucking and last year they sent a shot across the bow of freight brokers that they intend to disrupt that industry. They will haul freight on their trucks for others because they have the capacity. They frequently move trucks near empty in order to make deliveries to their customers on time. They can use that empty space to move freight for a much cheaper price than brokers, just to lower their costs. They openly said they didn't care if it was profitable but that it lowered costs per package. They will do the same with overnight shipping once they have the capacity.

Fedex and UPS will be targeted by Amazon.
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:09 PM   #40  
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Don't shoot the messenger folks. I know an executive in their transportation operation and am simply giving you their view. If you don't believe me look at their trucking operations. They are three years ahead of their aviation operation with trucking and last year they sent a shot across the bow of freight brokers that they intend to disrupt that industry. They will haul freight on their trucks for others because they have the capacity. They frequently move trucks near empty in order to make deliveries to their customers on time. They can use that empty space to move freight for a much cheaper price than brokers, just to lower their costs. They openly said they didn't care if it was profitable but that it lowered costs per package. They will do the same with overnight shipping once they have the capacity.

Fedex and UPS will be targeted by Amazon.
This was the origin of AWS, now one of the largest cloud computing platforms in the US. Amazon had excess capacity within their own data center, that they were able to sell. It became evident as they scaled, that they could become a cloud computing powerhouse. Companies don't have server farms anymore, they just contract with AWS or a competitor for a virtual server farm. They are following a similar model and you should expect them to enter the truck freight and air freight business within the decade.
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