Prepare Yourselves... 2021 AEs
03-04-2021, 04:14 PM
#1241
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Middle Seat
Posts: 1,202
Prepare Yourselves... 2021 AEs
Originally Posted by jaxsurf
FWIW I had been hoping to get 3 paychecks for most of the year but this whole ‘recall every affected pilot NOW’ thing has really put a damper on things 
Hmmm, I feel like the ALPA MAC should be on our side
Not sure why they’re pressuring people to do something that isn’t legal.
Hmmm, I feel like the ALPA MAC should be on our side
Not sure why they’re pressuring people to do something that isn’t legal.
That’s why it’s important to consult ESGR/DOL VETS just like you mentioned.
I think a lot of people go through some sort of thought process regarding this sudden change of course and I just think it may come off awkward on an online forum.
In the long run I’m really excited that everybody’s being recalled and it looks like some really good things are on the horizon!
03-04-2021, 04:15 PM
#1242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by BigHitterLlama
My understanding is they’re just conveying what they have been told the company’s direction/interpretation is. They do a very good job for their assigned demographic.
Also, I’ve been told there is a USERRA lawsuit that has been under litigation for quite some time. Much of the policy regarding Mil pilots at face value seems to violate USERRA. The lawsuit has been to the detriment of Mil pilots in the short term (as far as fixing current issues) but hopefully will work out to help them in the long term.
Also, I’ve been told there is a USERRA lawsuit that has been under litigation for quite some time. Much of the policy regarding Mil pilots at face value seems to violate USERRA. The lawsuit has been to the detriment of Mil pilots in the short term (as far as fixing current issues) but hopefully will work out to help them in the long term.
03-04-2021, 04:19 PM
#1243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by crazyjaydawg
The company is well within their rights and they can ask people to go on MLOA until they’re blue in the face. ALPA MAC can’t really give legal advice, they can just parrot company policy and PWA/LOA language.
That’s why it’s important to consult ESGR/DOL VETS just like you mentioned.
I think a lot of people go through some sort of thought process regarding this sudden change of course and I just think it may come off awkward on an online forum.
In the long run I’m really excited that everybody’s being recalled and it looks like some really good things are on the horizon!
That’s why it’s important to consult ESGR/DOL VETS just like you mentioned.
I think a lot of people go through some sort of thought process regarding this sudden change of course and I just think it may come off awkward on an online forum.
In the long run I’m really excited that everybody’s being recalled and it looks like some really good things are on the horizon!
And things are looking up as you said, which is awesome.
03-04-2021, 04:25 PM
#1244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Middle Seat
Posts: 1,202
Originally Posted by jaxsurf
I’m not against b*tching, I just think b*tches should be realistic, which at first blush this did not seem to be (to me). I get it though, it is frustrating. Still, everyone has at least 1 paycheck and nobody is furloughed, so we’re doin alright.
And things are looking up as you said, which is awesome.
And things are looking up as you said, which is awesome.
Exactly. It’s like guys that *****ed about losing greenslips last summer, or the captains that *****ed about an MD to FO, sometimes it seems tone def depending on certain audiences, but all the *****ing has merits on some levels.
In reality we’re all getting a slice of the pie, we just each want to get the biggest slice that we can! Like I said, as long as I’m not costing a fellow pilot money, I’m going to fight tooth and nail for every cent from Delta.
They would certainly do it if the shoe was on the other foot!
03-04-2021, 06:02 PM
#1247
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,456
Delta is pushing USERRA limits, but framing the argument with a gripe about not getting double pay comes across tone deaf. There is a double standard regarding outside employment at Delta and we’ve been fighting that battle for a while. Complaining about losing your double dip isn’t the way to win. Know the audience and frame the message properly.
I’ve benefitted from USERRA across several employers throughout a 28 year military career. It can also be a benefit to non-military co-workers. At some employers, my co-workers had to pick up extra work, but it also created career advancement when I took leave from a management position. Here at Delta the junior pilots effectively move up a number when someone is out on leave. It’s a good program for all of us, not to mention the value to national defense.
We’ve had pilots push the limits of USERRA, so it’s no surprise the company is also pushing the limits. Stick to the double standard argument and drop the double dipping itching to gain some traction.
I’ve benefitted from USERRA across several employers throughout a 28 year military career. It can also be a benefit to non-military co-workers. At some employers, my co-workers had to pick up extra work, but it also created career advancement when I took leave from a management position. Here at Delta the junior pilots effectively move up a number when someone is out on leave. It’s a good program for all of us, not to mention the value to national defense.
We’ve had pilots push the limits of USERRA, so it’s no surprise the company is also pushing the limits. Stick to the double standard argument and drop the double dipping itching to gain some traction.
03-04-2021, 08:10 PM
#1248
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: NYC 7ERA
Posts: 1,965
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
Delta is pushing USERRA limits, but framing the argument with a gripe about not getting double pay comes across tone deaf. There is a double standard regarding outside employment at Delta and we’ve been fighting that battle for a while. Complaining about losing your double dip isn’t the way to win. Know the audience and frame the message properly.
I’ve benefitted from USERRA across several employers throughout a 28 year military career. It can also be a benefit to non-military co-workers. At some employers, my co-workers had to pick up extra work, but it also created career advancement when I took leave from a management position. Here at Delta the junior pilots effectively move up a number when someone is out on leave. It’s a good program for all of us, not to mention the value to national defense.
We’ve had pilots push the limits of USERRA, so it’s no surprise the company is also pushing the limits. Stick to the double standard argument and drop the double dipping itching to gain some traction.
I’ve benefitted from USERRA across several employers throughout a 28 year military career. It can also be a benefit to non-military co-workers. At some employers, my co-workers had to pick up extra work, but it also created career advancement when I took leave from a management position. Here at Delta the junior pilots effectively move up a number when someone is out on leave. It’s a good program for all of us, not to mention the value to national defense.
We’ve had pilots push the limits of USERRA, so it’s no surprise the company is also pushing the limits. Stick to the double standard argument and drop the double dipping itching to gain some traction.
In my case, I'd be missing no work if the current plan holds, and if something happened where I couldn't make it home in time (like another guy popping for covid and putting us all in 2 week quarantine. Again.) I would drop mil leave
Problem for me is my orders have me "detach from CENTCOM det site on or about 1 APR about 3 months before my orders "end"
Due to covid and the random logistics and personnel issues they are no longer cutting orders with exact dates.
Which makes it hard to put in mil leave that matches reality AND matches my written orders.
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
03-05-2021, 04:59 AM
#1249
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,865
Originally Posted by crazyjaydawg
My understanding is that the heartburn from the company with concurrent duty was that there were zoomies sitting reserve with DAL and also sitting alert with their squadron; when scheduling called, the aforementioned pilot would then drop mil leave. That is most definitely abuse and something that a civilian equivalent can't do.
Originally Posted by NeverFlexTO
. We had a couple bad apples that would get there schedule and drop MIL Leave on it to get out of a crappy line or training they were awarded.
This right here^^^^^^ We used to have one of the best MIL policies in the industry when I was hired. You could go on I-crew and automatically drop whatever you wanted. Christmas, Superbowl weekend etc. No questions asked, no CPO authorization etc. 100% automatic with MIL Leave Approved instantly showing on your schedule. Including a nice helicopter pictorial to boot!
Then over the years it slowly changed as the above mentioned "bad apples" abused the system to their advantage. Many of the "abusers" would go on and on about how it was not really abuse since it was authorized by USERRA - tell that to the guys 5 years senior to you that now has to work Christmas so you can go in to your unit and do "paperwork" for 4 hours and drop a 4 day trip! I doubt the intent of USERRA was to enable MIL guys to manipulate their schedules.
I was in the Reserves my first 16 years at DAL and saw the policy slowly get more and more burdensome to the point where DAL was getting sued over USERRA. Well plenty of blame to go around - we had guys abuse our awesome system and then DAL in typical fashion overreacts to the point of illegality.
To the guys complaining about not being able to double dip - really??? Just as bad as the senior guys complaining about some of the affected Pilots not working and getting paid while they are out flying the line. DAL responded very awkwardly to COIVD, that combined with the CARES act had created a few "windfalls" at the current time which is much better than the historical playbook - instantly furlough hundreds of Pilots and then reassess.
Scoop
03-05-2021, 05:41 AM
#1250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by Scoop
This right here^^^^^^ We used to have one of the best MIL policies in the industry when I was hired. You could go on I-crew and automatically drop whatever you wanted. Christmas, Superbowl weekend etc. No questions asked, no CPO authorization etc. 100% automatic with MIL Leave Approved instantly showing on your schedule. Including a nice helicopter pictorial to boot!
Then over the years it slowly changed as the above mentioned "bad apples" abused the system to their advantage. Many of the "abusers" would go on and on about how it was not really abuse since it was authorized by USERRA - tell that to the guys 5 years senior to you that now has to work Christmas so you can go in to your unit and do "paperwork" for 4 hours and drop a 4 day trip! I doubt the intent of USERRA was to enable MIL guys to manipulate their schedules.
I was in the Reserves my first 16 years at DAL and saw the policy slowly get more and more burdensome to the point where DAL was getting sued over USERRA. Well plenty of blame to go around - we had guys abuse our awesome system and then DAL in typical fashion overreacts to the point of illegality.
To the guys complaining about not being able to double dip - really??? Just as bad as the senior guys complaining about some of the affected Pilots not working and getting paid while they are out flying the line. DAL responded very awkwardly to COIVD, that combined with the CARES act had created a few "windfalls" at the current time which is much better than the historical playbook - instantly furlough hundreds of Pilots and then reassess.
Scoop
Then over the years it slowly changed as the above mentioned "bad apples" abused the system to their advantage. Many of the "abusers" would go on and on about how it was not really abuse since it was authorized by USERRA - tell that to the guys 5 years senior to you that now has to work Christmas so you can go in to your unit and do "paperwork" for 4 hours and drop a 4 day trip! I doubt the intent of USERRA was to enable MIL guys to manipulate their schedules.
I was in the Reserves my first 16 years at DAL and saw the policy slowly get more and more burdensome to the point where DAL was getting sued over USERRA. Well plenty of blame to go around - we had guys abuse our awesome system and then DAL in typical fashion overreacts to the point of illegality.
To the guys complaining about not being able to double dip - really??? Just as bad as the senior guys complaining about some of the affected Pilots not working and getting paid while they are out flying the line. DAL responded very awkwardly to COIVD, that combined with the CARES act had created a few "windfalls" at the current time which is much better than the historical playbook - instantly furlough hundreds of Pilots and then reassess.
Scoop
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
