Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Aviation Technology
The Greening of the Airline Business >

The Greening of the Airline Business

Search
Notices
Aviation Technology New, advanced, and future aviation technology discussion

The Greening of the Airline Business

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-15-2021, 08:16 AM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Position: NBC
Posts: 763
Default

The market will decide.

France may impose these restrictions in the near term, then face unintended consequences that ultimately lead back to market equilibrium.
Speed Select is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 08:43 AM
  #12  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,480
Default

Marine LaPen will put a stop to all this foolishness when she is elected, n’est ce pas?


Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé!
Contre nous de la tyrannie
L’étendard sanglant est levé
L’étendard sanglant est levé
Excargodog is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 09:25 AM
  #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Default

Originally Posted by Myfingershurt View Post
Until the French govt declares that all international flights have to land in CDG
Then all their outbound international flights hve to land in JFK.
gloopy is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:00 AM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,259
Default

Originally Posted by SideSticker View Post
SAFuels are interesting but im more excited about some of the all electric designs coming down the pipe. Harbour air is making it work. And did you see this story...

United Airlines orders 200 vertical-takeoff electric airplanes

Harbor air created a aircraft that could carry zero payload for 5 minutes. They are a decade away from even a chance at making it work despite what they say. The batteries need to weigh at least ⅛ of current technology and charge 10 times as fast. Every week it seems a new super battery is announced that will be ready in two years. Those predictions have had zero success. Charging is a whole other issue.

https://youtu.be/nsBgDXHVorE

Last edited by sailingfun; 02-15-2021 at 10:16 AM.
sailingfun is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:15 AM
  #15  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 76
Default

No connection possible in CDG ?
The high speed train station is litterally downstairs ...
Arturito is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:18 AM
  #16  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,259
Default

Originally Posted by Arturito View Post
No connection possible in CDG ?
The high speed train station is litterally downstairs ...
It only runs to Paris. You can however ride into Paris and then change trains. Takes time however.
sailingfun is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:31 AM
  #17  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 76
Default

It already goes to a couple cities without connection (the ones too close to have a flight). It wouldnt require much work to have direct trains to most cities in the 2.5 hr range they want to implement.
Arturito is offline  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:41 AM
  #18  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,218
Default

Originally Posted by Speed Select View Post
The market will decide.

France may impose these restrictions in the near term, then face unintended consequences that ultimately lead back to market equilibrium.
People will just buy tickets on British Air or Lufthansa and connect to the smaller French cities through their hubs. The only thing that will be accomplished is a loss of jobs in France.
Attached Images
Hedley is offline  
Old 02-16-2021, 06:39 AM
  #19  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Default

Originally Posted by Wingedbeast View Post
All this because of hoax created by algore.

While flying around in his own private jet.....
APCLurker is offline  
Old 02-16-2021, 07:37 AM
  #20  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Default

Originally Posted by SideSticker View Post
SAFuels are interesting but im more excited about some of the all electric designs coming down the pipe. Harbour air is making it work. And did you see this story...

United Airlines orders 200 vertical-takeoff electric airplanes

Unfortunately, there is no technical path for all-electric narrowbodies or larger. The underlying physics and chemistry utterly preclude that (without fundamental changes to the fabric of the universe as we know it).

Electric airliners may address a small niche of lower-end regional aircraft on short hops... might be 10-20% of the global market max. Think EAS, plus some 50-seat route.

Even hybrid concepts are painfully difficult to make an energy-accounting case once you add the volume and weight of the extra hardaware.

Current-technology battery pack-level specific-energy capacity is about 250Wh/Kg. That's bleeding edge, aviation applications obviously need to be more conservative.

The absolute theoretical max of battery chemistry is about 1,000 Wh/Kg. That upper limit cannot change since it's underpinned by the atomic and subatomic structure of the atoms being used; no amount of R&D at least in this universe will change that. That's the chemical limit at the individual cell... once you account for overhead for battery pack management systems, the actual max capacity is somewhat lower.

Aggravating factor... on longer flights as fuel burns the plane gets significantly lighter. On very-long haul that can be 50% of the TOW. Batteries don't get lighter enroute.

Jet A has a specific energy of 12,000 Wh/kg. See the problem?

Liquid fuel is the only way for mainline and most regional ops. SAF is the obvious practical way forward, it can be scaled up and used in current aircraft designs. You can even make it carbon-zero from green energy, water, and air. Hydrogen is a possibility but would require major ground infrastructure + clean-sheet design aircraft. H2 has better specific energy than even Jet A, but it's specific volume is horrible.. a practical H2 jet would need a LOT of extra fuselage volume to accommodate the large tanks, like flying-wing (or blended) design. Consider the space-shuttle... recognizable in form as an aircraft. But it's H2 had to be carried in that giant orange drop tank.
rickair7777 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cf105
JetBlue
385
01-15-2020 05:57 PM
gzsg
Delta
102
08-29-2017 05:12 PM
Aviationluver
Career Questions
6
03-27-2017 11:19 AM
n287hg
Major
13
11-29-2009 06:37 PM
wannabepilot
Corporate
43
12-01-2008 05:22 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices