crazyjaydawg

I'm done with the thread drift in the AE thread.

It's pretty clear that one thing Delta has done well is turn civilian and former military pilots against active reserve/guard pilots.

The idea that reserve/guard pilots "steal" unearned PS checks, "steal" government-funded PSP money, get 401(k)/DC contributions for free and whatever else nonsense I've heard over the years has been pretty eye-opening. USERRA is pretty clear that any "gray area" will favor the servicemember. The amount that military people have gotten in PS checks and DC catch-ups pales in comparison to the Billions thrown away on buybacks.

Delta has received significant coin from Uncle Same since the beginning of COVID; however even before COVID, the government has been Delta's largest corporate contract. So much so that the DoD actually audits Delta every two years and a part of that audit is USERRA compliance and veteran hiring compliance. Delta wants to have their cake (free government cheese) and to eat it too (not have to deal with reservists).

\endrant

I don't know what's sad about that? Taking care of fellow service members is a sad and hated job?

I'm also going to guess that a lot has changed with USERRA and the world in general since you had that "job".

I too have worked a lot with Sailors transitioning too/from mil orders. I enjoy taking care of people and it has been really eye-opening to see the wide range of how employers treat military members. Delta is definitely below the median.

The DOL and the ESGR are the definitive tools for people to figure out their best options, I just don't understand why people on the internet give the advice of "don't even try, just fall in line and do as you're told."

CX500T

I bid on the Jan AE.

I've been on long term open ended (can end with reasonable notice) orders since November.

Training assigned around the end of February. April 26th. Start working return.

Surprise converted.

Mil Affairs ALPA guy and TL (AtL CPO) both said I needed to drop mil leave the day before my conversion.

But a guy flying 91/135 or any non mil job just has to show up when Delta asks.

I got stuck in covid prison in Qatar and it became real dicey if I could make it back in time.

Now, with the way they handled it, and the **** show the summer is gearing up to be, I'm staying out on mil leave as long as I can.

I would not have bid in January if I knew this was their plan.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

crazyjaydawg

We can discuss more via PM if you'd like, but for them to tell you that you must drop MLOA is wrong. The company can request and strongly encourage you to drop MLOA, but they can not make you.

I can point you to the right people in the ESGR and DOL VETs that can help correct that nonsense.

TED74

The reason EB and the management gang are so against military members’ legitimate USERRA benefits is the same reason fellow pilots b!tch too. Human beings are sadly very tribal, we’re greedy, and we’re envious. Most people simply can’t find joy in anything they perceive is a “good deal”, that they themselves don’t directly or indirectly benefit from. I don’t think that’ll ever change, and it’s at the root of almost every gripe on every side of almost every issue (taxation, social welfare, religious liberty, sick leave, OE buyoffs, PS commuting, WB/NB, reserve vs. line, etc.). Thankfully, federal law sets the standard by which military members shall be treated/compensated by an employer, and individual opinions are largely irrelevant. I believe Delta will be found to be in violation of federal law and look forward to watching the lawsuit and penalty phase play out. In the mean time, the best we can do is show the anti-USERRA crowd the benefits they themselves get from the act (more jobs, faster seniority rise, etc.) and hope it offsets the perceived injustices they think are harming them (reduced profit sharing, seniority abrogation). In the end, people are going to choose to cave to their lizard brain or choose to feel positively about a law that helps keep our military readiness what it is today.

p3flteng

Ted,
You missed the largest benefit received by everyone...the security that this nation, and our population receives from Reserve members being out on orders around the world. So for the Anti USERRA, folks, a simple thank you would be better served vice the green derisive comments and actions.

TED74

Agree, that’s what I meant to communicate in my last sentence. But as a concept, that’s a lot for some people to swallow (sts)... and everyone’s happy to say thanks until they think their profit sharing could have been a few hundred dollars more. And don’t forget, your old timer ANG/AFRC pilots (and their families) had a very different experience in the military and even they can fail to appreciate the hardships endured over a 10- or 20-year citizen soldier career these days. Frankly, I’m astounded at how many people who aren’t airline pilots (where it’s pretty easy to come and go, sts), can actually pull it off.

Retired Guy

I signed up to this forum just to comment on these USERRA posts.

For several years now, it has been apparent to me there is abuse of the USERRA laws that I find abhorrent. There are a number of pilots getting hired at Delta and once they receive their seniority number - they are dropping orders and heading off to fly a desk at Eglin or some other cushy post. They go away for a couple of years, collect profit sharing on "deemed earnings", accrue seniority - and come back to a potential Captain slot (now "saved" for them courtesy of some LOA or similar). They get trained (some requiring solo only simulator periods and a lot of additional IOE - because they haven't flown a real airplane in years). And when they return to the line, they bump some other pilot down (who has been flying all this time).

A few years ago Delta was having to hire 2.5 military pilots to get 1 full time equivalent.

So I am not at all sympathetic to the complaints about Delta and their interpretation of the USERRA rules.

And yes, I served in the USAFR. Back in my day, you hired on when you were done with your active duty military service. So save me the "we are defending the Country" mantra. 90% of my new hire class served too.

crazyjaydawg

Yep, there it is. Way to come out swinging with the first post!

There have been situations of abuse, but at the end of the day the law is the law and personal opinions don't matter. Just like when Delta does stock buybacks of billions of dollars and golden parachutes for everybody (on the fourth floor), what I think or care about doesn't matter. It's legal and Delta gets theirs.

I hate fly now, grieve later, but that's the law and that's what I do. I hate that Delta violates the PWA all the damn time, especially in scope, but we have to keep showing up to work. That's the law and that's what I do.

I contact my congress people, I give them feedback about what I think is working and what isn't, but at the end of the day I follow the law.

USERRA is a law and I follow it. I believe that it behooves everybody that is eligible to follow it.

It is safe to say that a lot has changed since you started at Delta. It also goes to show that you have no idea what's in the PWA, what an LOA is, how our AE system works, what USERRA even is or many other intricate details if you think that a "Captain Slot" is somehow saved and ear-marked for a particular person.

If that was your coming out-of-the-closet troll post, then well done Sir. Otherwise I have a hard time believing that you were actually USAFR, or anyone resembling a person that has served for others.

TED74

I appreciate you validating my entire post.

theUpsideDown

In my new hire class one guy was very open he'd get done with IOE and head back for mil until he could hold a good line in base. He wanted to make sure the instructor knew that when he started explaining reserve.

Navy FA18, a guy who gets his pick of places to work, and the whole class knew it because he told us in class and then at the dinner.

I really don't think a civilian guy could say the equivalent and not get fired that day.