TED74

I’ve gotta be honest - I don’t think management has it in them to actually resource negotiations properly and simultaneously dig themselves out of the mess we’re in. Before COVID they weren’t even willing to devote proper resources to negotiations and they put the wrong man on the job. Since then, they’ve lost experience everywhere and standing the operation back up is going to be Groundhog Day of minor disasters...SN will be AFU for the next 12 months at least (IMHO). They’ve got a contract with us that works just fine, they’ve hired an insider to exploit it to maximum effect, and they’ve got the dispatchers over the barrel until 2022. Flight attendants are as far from organizing as they’ve been in a while and I just don’t see us having a new contract before mid-2023. If we want QOL gains beyond what’s in hand already, I suspect it will only come via MOU or LOA. My 5:15 swap for TOE relief proposal was a little tongue in cheek since I agree with Sailing above. Of course I’ll still vote for it if it’s of interest to management.

sailingfun

That’s a valid point. There will be a few markets still running. Iceland and the UK come to mind. We once did TOE as 2 legs. The increase to 4 seems like overkill. I am surprised they have not cut it back to 2.

sailingfun

There is probably one area you could extract a current gain larger than the value of changing TOE to a theater qual. You might be able to get a across the board pay raise of some amount. The reason is the company knows there will be some form of retro pay be it real retro or a signing bonus. The company might be willing to pay part of that debt now. There will be no retro on all the various proposed work rule changes and no incentive for the company to give in those areas. The longer we go without a contract however the smaller on a percentage basis the retro will become.

Tailhookah

There’s absolutely no reason to wait for section 6. We can continue to cut MOU/LOA’s when needed. If there’s a need for a change, I am all for helping as long as we can negotiate a better outcome. Bring it on!

Tailhookah

No reason why we can’t push for improvements via the LOA/MOU now. Until Covid is gone there’s no way we will be able to justify a cent increase to our pay. So why wait for that recovery when we could maybe get other increases (work rules or QOL) issues now...

iaflyer

If we do it outside Section 6, the company will only work on the things that help them. There is more overall pressure for a whole deal if we do it in Section 6, and make a whole package of improvements. A LOA/MOU only solves a few issues that are really difficult and needed at that moment.

PilotJ3

This...

We tried to helped them when Covid started. We got a knife in the back with optics for the SIL. We are still waiting for the ultra long call and the new retirement plan.

Section 6, it has to be.

Abouttime2fish

after all Ed’s union busting, optimizer 6.9, MOAD, UNA BS, general personnel mismanagement, and blaming pilots for all their F ups..... they better bring something good. Or just put me in the forever no column. Fix scope. Pay raise with retro. Another week of vaca. Vaca is 5:15 per day. Training pays hours we are there (that’s 6 per day for recurrent). Pos space commuting. That would be a good start... I’m sure I’m missing a lot.

fishforfun

I am in the exact same mindset. I hope we don’t have short memories with regard to the path they chose with Covid ops. We never had to have this churn. It was all self inflicted.

FangsF15

Im thinking something along the lines of what American had to do when they accidentally allowed their pilots unlimited drops over a Christmas a couple of years ago. Don’t remember the details, but management had to pay up big time, with a very lopsided deal for the pilots to fix their own self-inflicted mess. Sounds familiar...