PilotJ3

Never, ever, ever, ever…do this.

Seniority is everything. Waiting 1.5 yrs it can equal more than 250-500k in loss of income.

Waiting 1.5 yrs = about 1500-2000 pilots hired in AA in front of him. Hired at Delta today = starting at the beginning of the new wave, he probably get a better career progression here.

I’ve could’ve waited for a flow through. My envoy class flew over to AA in mid 2019. I will be in yr6 pay soon, they are in yr3 pay. I’ll be WB FO soon, they are in the bottom of the list/NB FOs getting abused.

My 401k is probably already double or triple of theirs. I was going to be furloughed but got saved by the Veops, they were getting blank lines and trying to pick up flying to get money (when Cares 2 got delayed) and their furlough date got pushed back a couple of times.

Some of them didn’t wanted to do the extra work of applying everywhere, interviewing and AA was alway “it’s only 2 yrs away”.

Gone Flying

the info I saw said that OTS CIV number included military trained pilots with civilian background as well (mil to RJ to AA). Which is admittedly weird but that was what it said. It was a couple years ago and I can’t find it now.

basically it was like 230 “pure military”, ~100 military/civilian, (which is still military) 53 WO hired outside the flow and (I think) ~50 pure civilian from non WOs.

If that is bad info I apologize but that was given to me by a AA pilot who was hired there a few years ago.

EDIT I can’t find numbers for the total year but I found the Q1 numbers for 2018. Out of 122 pilots hired outside the flow,
-64 were military
-33 were military/civilian
​​​​​​-25 were pure civilian (this includes some WO pilots hired outside flow)

I’ll keep looking for total numbers

mketch11

I’m doing the extra work of applying at all the majors, and I get the idea of leaving for delta now and having the extra money at the back end and the security of not waiting, but how much is my time worth? Is losing out on 500k or more worth the time it takes to drive 2 hours to the airport (for me), then take a two hour flight to start work and lose a few days a month away from home commuting? Say I lost 72 hours of my time each month commuting. Over 20 years. Thats 720 days I could have been home. That’s 2 YEARS of your life gone. I was asking how much that is worth. Obviously based on opinion and not as easy an answer as comparing salaries. That’s why I decided to base my life decisions based on what you fine folks have to say. Lol.

PilotJ3

Theres no guarantee that any base will survive. After going to 2 base closures in my previous airline, the only thing sure in this career is seniority. Ask the guys that were based at BOS, CVG, MEM, DFW. Ask the AA guys that lost BOS, STL, eventually PHL(Or one of the Ny bases)

Easier to change airlines after being hired in a Legacy, vs getting picked up from a regional or waiting for the magic flow. That person losing 1,500-2,000 numbers in seniority at DAL and AA, just waiting for a flow that might stop like things stopped last year. It’s not only money is the overall QOL that you’ll be losing, just for waiting…

Gone Flying

I think DFW is as safe at AA as ATL is for us. Just a thought

FangsF15

Having been both a commuter and lived in base, I would say there is no substitute for driving to work. Zero stress, time at home, no commutes for Short Call, only to sit in a crash pad and commute home. Yes, bases can always close, but the days of airline consolidation aren't what they were 10-20 years ago. It is extremely unlikely DFW will cease to be a pilot base for AA, just like it's unlikely ATL will cease for DAL...

You have the right instincts: Happy wife, happy life. We can b***h and moan about how dumb that is, but it is true. Sitting Short Call from your couch (like I am right now) is worth a lot to me and my family. Just like some people chase the highest paying category and stay junior forever, there are people who will stay super senior as a FO, but have a Schedule/QOL that's tough to beat. It's about what is valuable to you.

I'd say it's a reasonable risk to take to stick with the AA flow and drive to work for the rest of your career, vice losing out on some earnings and seniority, or whatever else might happen. But it doesn't matter what I think, or what anyone else here thinks. It's what you and your family think. Good luck.

*Edit* Gone Flying had the same exact thought, but much more pithy.

runinonfumes

You can always earn more money…but you can’t make more time…

mketch11

Thanks to all for the replies.

MiserDD

Commuting for one year sucks, 20 would be pure misery.

PilotJ3

But if you make more money, you can drop trips and be more time home.

Im not arguing about commuting or be home base. I’m arguing about staying in a place, waiting for a flow that might not materialize the time you think you were going to be there.

I was supposed to be CA in 3 yrs at the regionals, never happened after 6 yrs. Guys hired 2-3 yrs after me at Envoy are still sitting there, waiting for the flow, which it got added 2 more years because of COVID.

I can fly as less or as much as I want, that’s the point of seniority. It’s not the loss wages and benefits, is the loss of QOL when things goes down to drain. Remember when people said “we are going to be alright, unless there’s a black swan event” About 2 yrs ago?

We are starting the next wave of new hires, today, not in 2-3 years. In every legacy/FedEx/UPS, Today! Why do you think they are “giving away” money to keep guys at Envoy/PSA/PDT? Because they know everyone will be hiring like crazy by next January.