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DAL Check airman pay?

Old 05-21-2022, 09:18 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by GliderCFI View Post
Problem with that is our LCP pay is based on block time. So on a 717, a 21 hour 4 day with 15 legs may only block 14 hours. Override on 14 hours for significantly more work is a tough sell.

As for guys dropping and swapping when they're senior...I'm genuinely curious who has coverage, and who doesn't know how to bid. Bid right the first time and you won't have to swap.
The block hour distinction is a very important one, thanks for mentioning it.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:16 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
There is also a provision for a 30% override if you work a lot of LCA duties that month as well. Before, I heard most guys never saw it, I wonder if more LCAs are seeing it now. I know one LCA friend pretty much only does OE right now.
I have done 1 trip in the last 8 months that was not an OE. If we get a contract in the next three years, LCP pay better be a) retroactive, and b) eye watering... or I am thinking a lot of them will quit for the greenies they are passing up.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:31 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
I have done 1 trip in the last 8 months that was not an OE. If we get a contract in the next three years, LCP pay better be a) retroactive, and b) eye watering... or I am thinking a lot of them will quit for the greenies they are passing up.
If they haven't quit now, you think more will quit later after a deal is passed? Not likely. I became a LCP not too long ago specifically bc they are having an issue attracting KNOWING it will improve which will make it harder after a deal.

As far as not being able to GS, I don't understand that. I have no problem GSing at all. I also wait for the OE planners to reach out to me if they need a LC done. I'm not volunteering days, bc they are exactly that....volunteer.

How is being an LCA limiting GS's? I admit you can't swap around schedule after OE is on your line, but neither can most anyone once the days are negative unless they are swapping out of trips to pick up severely negative trips next day out.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:58 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by marcal View Post
If they haven't quit now, you think more will quit later after a deal is passed? Not likely. I became a LCP not too long ago specifically bc they are having an issue attracting KNOWING it will improve which will make it harder after a deal.

As far as not being able to GS, I don't understand that. I have no problem GSing at all. I also wait for the OE planners to reach out to me if they need a LC done. I'm not volunteering days, bc they are exactly that....volunteer.

How is being an LCA limiting GS's? I admit you can't swap around schedule after OE is on your line, but neither can most anyone once the days are negative unless they are swapping out of trips to pick up severely negative trips next day out.
Agree with you. I've never understood the either or GS or OE mindset. The only thing preventing me from GS'ing is fatigue.
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Old 05-22-2022, 06:01 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by marcal;[url=tel:3427597
3427597[/url]]If they haven't quit now, you think more will quit later after a deal is passed? Not likely. I became a LCP not too long ago specifically bc they are having an issue attracting KNOWING it will improve which will make it harder after a deal.

As far as not being able to GS, I don't understand that. I have no problem GSing at all. I also wait for the OE planners to reach out to me if they need a LC done. I'm not volunteering days, bc they are exactly that....volunteer.

How is being an LCA limiting GS's? I admit you can't swap around schedule after OE is on your line, but neither can most anyone once the days are negative unless they are swapping out of trips to pick up severely negative trips next day out.
It’s limiting GS because LCA generally fly a line instead of reserve. It’s limiting in the sense after you’ve flown a full line, with every trip having OE lately, you’re probably too tired to be willing to fly more on a GS.

It’s category dependent of course, but even a pilot who is at 65-80% could bid reserve, move Xdays to (some) weekends, and get the GSs on Xdays, so they fly less than a line and make easily over 100 hrs pay, usually 130 or more. The LCA override doesn’t cover that. Most LCA I know are working way more and making way less than rolling partial thunder.
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Old 05-22-2022, 06:17 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by marcal View Post
If they haven't quit now, you think more will quit later after a deal is passed? Not likely. I became a LCP not too long ago specifically bc they are having an issue attracting KNOWING it will improve which will make it harder after a deal.

As far as not being able to GS, I don't understand that. I have no problem GSing at all. I also wait for the OE planners to reach out to me if they need a LC done. I'm not volunteering days, bc they are exactly that....volunteer.

How is being an LCA limiting GS's? I admit you can't swap around schedule after OE is on your line, but neither can most anyone once the days are negative unless they are swapping out of trips to pick up severely negative trips next day out.
Just curious. How long have you been an LCP and what category are you in?
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Old 05-22-2022, 06:35 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
I have done 1 trip in the last 8 months that was not an OE. If we get a contract in the next three years, LCP pay better be a) retroactive, and b) eye watering... or I am thinking a lot of them will quit for the greenies they are passing up.
Retro on LCP pay specifically??? Retro on Section 3 yes, but making the improved LCP pay retro is fantasy. The eye watering improvements is what I would expect. And from what I’ve heard generically, the improvements are significant, but we’ll see.

It’s more their problem, not ours. Same with SLI pay/work rules. Of course we individually all expect/deserve more, but the collective problem is theirs to solve.

Overall Retro is less about the money than it is about disincentivizing the company to drag its feet. If we yield on that, we will never have an on-time contract again. Or retro again, for that matter.
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Old 05-22-2022, 07:41 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by FangsF15 View Post
Retro on LCP pay specifically??? Retro on Section 3 yes, but making the improved LCP pay retro is fantasy. The eye watering improvements is what I would expect. And from what I’ve heard generically, the improvements are significant, but we’ll see.

It’s more their problem, not ours. Same with SLI pay/work rules. Of course we individually all expect/deserve more, but the collective problem is theirs to solve.

Overall Retro is less about the money than it is about disincentivizing the company to drag its feet. If we yield on that, we will never have an on-time contract again. Or retro again, for that matter.
First, it’s about the money. Second, it’s about not allowing the RLA to be weaponized.
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Old 05-22-2022, 11:28 AM
  #29  
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Most don’t become LCA for the $, they really do it for the prestige and reserve parking spots.


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Old 05-22-2022, 12:07 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Hrkdrivr View Post
It’s limiting in the sense after you’ve flown a full line, with every trip having OE lately, you’re probably too tired to be willing to fly more on a GS.
I don't disagree that a LCP may be too tired, but that doesn't mean they can't do any GS. A common refrain is that LCP's cannot do GS and that is 100% false. What it DOES impact, is close in schedule flexibility(swaps/drops). The only negative is that once OE is on a trip, its stuck. But, you can always email the OE planner and tell them not to give you OE on a specific trip if needed and you also have multiple PCS runs before they start dropping OE. If I go through 3-4 days of PCS runs and can't get rid of a trip, all it takes is an email to be like, "please don't put OE on here, I need to get rid of this trip".

I can't speak for all fleets but my LLCP is very clear to do what we need to in order to remain happy and engaged when it comes to our schedules and students. And we currently have no major OE delays at all on this particular fleet.
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