Hrkdrivr

We don’t disagree much. My only point is you’re much more flexible and available if you’re not a LCA. And OBTW, a lot of guys/gals will leave if the pay isn’t increased dramatically.

To someone else, why not full retro for LCA override if we get full retro otherwise?

FangsF15

First, I’m all for asking for it at the table. No problem with that. But for the same reason SLI’s won’t get “retro” on any of their improvements, why training attendees won’t get “retro” on training pay improvements, why we won’t get an additional week of vacation retroactively 🤞🏼, why those of us on property didn’t get free uniforms when NH’s did, or why they didn’t pay retro for NH hotel costs. And on, and on. It’s fantasy to expect that.

Besides, it’s just odd to have a special carve out like that. The “retro” will apply to everyone’s pay since 1 Jan 2020. And we must hold firmly resolute on that, lest we encourage future negotiations to drag out. That is a hill worth dying on.

I answered your question, so answer mine. Why should LCP get a special carve out as retro on any pay improvements, on top of the broader retro check?

3 green

That's what I was thinking too.

Hrkdrivr

I didn’t realize SLIs didn’t get retro when we signed the last contract. Or LCAs.

I’m not asking for any special carve outs. Like you (I think) I’m saying every pay scale that gets increased should get retro, as they would have been paid if the contract had been signed and implemented on time.

So if the LCA override is increased (to whatever), and all the hourly rates get increased, and we get full retro (I know, I know), I think the LCA overrides should get the retro treatment. And SLIs. And newhires. And vacation. And uniforms. Shoot for the moon. Take what you can get. It’s paid according to the PWA just like everything else, and it would have gone up with all the other rates when the contract was signed.

Except for the carve out comment, 100% agree with your second paragraph. At a minimum every pilot should get 100% retro on every hour they worked since 1 Jan 20. That’s an easy one item NO vote for me. I just disagree SLIs and LCAs getting retro on their overrides is a carve out. It’s pay in the PWA that should have gone up.

Fantasy? Probably, but again I agree with you, we definitely need to argue for it at the table.

Gunfighter

Playing devil’s advocate just because it’s APC entertainment. You want the best chance of your retro check, not to hold firm. Denying retroactive LCA pay improvements absolutely encourages dragging out future negotiations. So does overlooking per diem, vacation, training and SLI pay. You are standing in defense of your hill, not the hill.

Ill stand on the hill with you, I just think it should be a bigger hill. The bigger the check, the bigger the dissuasive power in future negotiations.

*not an LCA, LVP or SLI.

FangsF15

I can get on board with every single subpart being retroactively applied where pay is involved. However, I can't imagine getting on board with just one small piece getting a special retro carve out, while others don't. A rising tide raises all boats.

To your 'hill' analogy, I would argue I am standing on the hill we are all standing on, while the other pieces are smaller bumps on that hill. But I get what you are saying.

And for the record, I absolutely think LCP's deserve a pay/QOL bump, which it seems has been TA'd already. And while I think LCP's 'need' it, I think the company needs it more. Management is the one begging new captains' on thier OE to apply. On this, at least, we have the leverage, not them.

Hrkdrivr

I think we’re in violent agreement.

Bergman

*Every hour they were PAID since 1 Jan 20

Whoopsmybad

Exactly, and a very important distinction.

dalad

Wrong! As an LCA who is senior in category on the 330 you get great trips plus leave a nice hole in your schedule to pick up one GS.