Giordano Bruno

Good point. And if this Age 67 abomination actually came to fruition, their additional time on disability would create a massive costing increase the pilot side of the ledger for contract negotiating purposes, just for that particular demographic.

It is pretty foolish of them to sell it by calling it a "free" two year insurance policy, or two "free" years of a 50% FAE pension plan. Just as foolish as claiming Age 67 will "improve safety."

Buck Rogers

Fixed it for you for clarity, as long as we are making up one sided arguments

gloopy

That would only make the problem worse in the long run. The more money you flood a niche sector with blindly and by decree, the more they raise their prices.

A generation ago a bachelor's degree could be had for 10-20K and all one's ratings for 30-40K easily. Yet some deemed that "too expensive" on the university side and started flooding the sector with trillions in "help" with economically predictable (well, maybe not to Keynesians LOL!) results.

College should be far cheaper than it was then, as the speed and accesability of information has put the Libraries of Alexandria/Congress/etc in everyone's pocket at the speed of light for free. Yet these corrupt institutions have instead charged exponentially more, precicely because of all the "help" thrown their way to make it "more affordable" as they arrogantly and irresponsibily hired multipules more fake admins in make work jobs than actual teachers and spent just as lavishly on useless construction projects to sell the experience to the next generation.

Airlines have meanwhile willfully ignored pilot training and supply and are only now doing something about it. Unfortunately that something is merely dumping money on it without much attention paid to a sustainable infractructure.

Aviat (the makers of Husky) offered but one small example of a common sense model to remedy this; completely revamped 152's rebuilt to as good as new, for eye wateringly low block hour costs of around $75/hr wet. No airline, and no flight school, was interested. Instead, Big-Ed once again just bellied up to the trough of easy money from deep pockets as they filled their ramps with half a million dollar primary trainers.

The 6 figure reading list appears to be the first on the chopping block. Its still early in the correction, but that's the lowest hanging fruit for sure.

Bucking Bar

Q: If the age 65-67 pilots can not fly internationally, do they bid trips they can not fly and get bought off everything? How would that work?

Q: Delta enjoys being able to hire really sharp 65-year-olds and paying them $300,000 less a year than if those LCA types were able to hold on to a seniority number. That labor pool will dry up. Any thoughts on how they'll staff the non-con schoolhouse?

Corporations are shunning the age 65+ pilots for large-cabin jets due to ICAO. IMHO this change does not make economic sense without ICAO and it should probably start with ICAO.

It is sad that pilots would rather hang around their jobs than retire & enjoy what they earned. If by some miracle I can remain relevant to my family & they still enjoy hanging out with Daddy, then I'm doing it right.

formerdal

Actually it would just not be a cost decrease as the pilots come off of disability. Cost would remain the same with regard to disability expense for 2 additional years.

Giordano Bruno

Right. And where were you 10 years ago advocating for Age 67, at your seniority then?
Much better to wait until you can get 2 more years at your highest possible seniority. Bravo.

Giordano Bruno

If I refinance my hair restoration loan, and the monthly payment is unchanged but I add 2 years to the payoff, can I say my costs remain the same?

Bucking Bar

Best guesses:

Age 67 will do nothing to affect safety. PM skills have come a long way & pilots are now trained to be assertive. This trend will continue because the data shows that it is effective.

Age 67 will do nearly nothing to expand the pilot supply because age 67 pilots are going to be the least productive pilots for their cost (as are top seniority pilots everywhere).

Anecdotally, back when Second Officers were a thing, some Captains I knew at FedEx bid back. They flew around half their trips, maybe less. One just hung on for the Christmas Season, flew the overtime trips, and banged out of most everything else the rest of the year. (He was just hanging around to gain health care coverage for an ailing wife, which was admirable)

Buck Rogers

I have never said I was for it. All I'm trying to do is call 'em like I see 'em. I certainly see the cons(the most influential and least stated is the $$/seat progression) some of the other cons are a little more nebulous. The pro is an end to government sponsored age discrimination.

I'll make you a deal. I'll expect you to vote for your pocket book as long as you expect me to vote for mine. I don't get a vote on the age 67, nor do you. Consequently, it's a fairly moot point on trying to sway peoples position. Now, if herd mentality is your thing, by all means jump on in, the waters fine and you'll have lots of support.

BTW, It will not affect me but it will affect my kids and their progression/$$$. Therefor, I would be against extending the age. That is, of course, until they get to be around 64. The same thing most all others pilots think.

badflaps

It is amazing at 65, how quickly things go down hill. The mail is mostly Medicare results. Now a visit to the doc involves drawing a clock that shows 3:50. I fooled 'em, said mine was digital. Good health after 65 is a gift. Now where the @$#^% did I put my teeth?