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sailingfun 11-26-2024 05:49 AM

I found just stopping to inquire about the loads and how many non revs are listed solved 90% of non rev issues. The parking brake solved the remaining 10%.

OOfff 11-26-2024 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 3855791)
Or....you could show some initiative and tell the Captain you're going out front for a minute to see if they got everyone on.

Look, I know things get real busy just before pushback, so I always talked to the gate agents before I got on the jet, and I would ask them at that time, "Are we going to be full?" And, "Are the non-revs going to get on?" And, "We got any jumpseaters?" If it looked like we were going to be full I would ask them to please get everyone on and if there's going to be a delay, "Put it on me."

Never had a problem with my FO leaving to go check, last minute, either.

Some of you guys make it a lot harder than it has to be!

“put the delay on me” doesn’t really work anymore the way you think it does. agents still have to hit their timelines, and flight crew delays operate in parallel to that. the data-driven world measures things separately instead of on a single time line. an agent holding for nonrevs is still going to miss their metrics. wish it weren’t so, but we can’t offer the get-out-of-jail-free card we used to.

the parking brake still forces their hand, of course

GMK35 11-26-2024 06:27 AM

I've flown with many CAs who make the walk/at least make their intentions extremely clear to the GA prior to walking down to the aircraft. I've never been a late arrival due to delaying for non-rev, JS, etc., despite having left up to 10 min late multiple times. It's easy to take care of each other/our families who are non-reving with no overall impact to the operation, so it blows my mind that people out there just don't give a **** about being a decent person to others, especially fellow employees/their families. If you're a CA and it's not time-crunched leading up to pushback (you know, when you're sitting there for 10+ min BSing waiting to turn on the APU), get up and go check on the JS/non-rev situation, or ask me to do it, but to do nothing demonstrates you're lazy and selfish.

GogglesPisano 11-26-2024 06:50 AM

Why are you guys so spun up about this? Flight Family sends us a message an hour prior to push assuring us that all nonrevs have been cleared. /s

notEnuf 11-26-2024 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 3855791)
Or....you could show some initiative and tell the Captain you're going out front for a minute to see if they got everyone on.

Look, I know things get real busy just before pushback, so I always talked to the gate agents before I got on the jet, and I would ask them at that time, "Are we going to be full?" And, "Are the non-revs going to get on?" And, "We got any jumpseaters?" If it looked like we were going to be full I would ask them to please get everyone on and if there's going to be a delay, "Put it on me."

Never had a problem with my FO leaving to go check, last minute, either.

Some of you guys make it a lot harder than it has to be!

This is the way. Most times when I ask about jumpseaters they turn to the computer and start banging away because they haven't checked yet. This gets the ball rolling and gets them logged in so the next question about non-revs is easily viewed on the screen. It takes literally one time with a friendly (usually out staion) gate agent that isn't in a hurry to show you where to look when they pull it up. Then, every future greeting you can be armed with the knowledge before they even speak. I usually end with "if you have late runners, pax or JS just get them on, I'll take the delay and make up the time airborne."

Shades of Blue 11-26-2024 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by OOfff (Post 3855793)
“put the delay on me” doesn’t really work anymore the way you think it does. agents still have to hit their timelines, and flight crew delays operate in parallel to that. the data-driven world measures things separately instead of on a single time line. an agent holding for nonrevs is still going to miss their metrics. wish it weren’t so, but we can’t offer the get-out-of-jail-free card we used to.

the parking brake still forces their hand, of course

It still works that way for me. Every time. I tell the gate agent before I walk down that I’d like every seat full and if it causes a delay for them to “put it on me”. The gate agent almost always smiles and their demeanor relaxes.

If it looks like timing is getting tight, I put a comment in Flight Family saying “Captain wants to wait for boarding remaining passengers and jumpseaters”. I tag tower, gate agent, and FAs. Tower normally responds with an “Ok” or a “.”
Never had a phone call or an issue come from it. No “carpet dance” or whatever people fear will happen.
I’m also proactive about getting them an “out” time as soon as the doors are closed though. It’s a team effort.

LoSpeedHiDrag 11-27-2024 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Peoplemvr (Post 3855524)

BTW....what is a " team member"?

Uh..... the SkyTeam?

notEnuf 11-27-2024 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by Shades of Blue (Post 3855855)
It still works that way for me. Every time. I tell the gate agent before I walk down that I’d like every seat full and if it causes a delay for them to “put it on me”. The gate agent almost always smiles and their demeanor relaxes.

If it looks like timing is getting tight, I put a comment in Flight Family saying “Captain wants to wait for boarding remaining passengers and jumpseaters”. I tag tower, gate agent, and FAs. Tower normally responds with an “Ok” or a “.”
Never had a phone call or an issue come from it. No “carpet dance” or whatever people fear will happen.
I’m also proactive about getting them an “out” time as soon as the doors are closed though. It’s a team effort.

In direct opposition to the guidance from flight ops. But I get the point. I’ll just take the delay and the ramp tower always blames me anyway. My delay inquiry ACARS always says pilots (me) not ready. I’m actually hoping I get the call so I can convey the situation. That’s never happened.

Shades of Blue 11-28-2024 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3856256)
In direct opposition to the guidance from flight ops. But I get the point. I’ll just take the delay and the ramp tower always blames me anyway. My delay inquiry ACARS always says pilots (me) not ready. I’m actually hoping I get the call so I can convey the situation. That’s never happened.

I’ll have to look up that guidance from flight ops. I’m sure it’s in an update or memo amongst the many that they push these days.
If all the doors are closed, that’s the only trigger that allows me to get an out time. If all the doors are closed, it’s highly likely that everyone is also ready to push except possibly the flight attendants who will be ready momentarily.
I see no need to delay getting them an out time when it’s in my own best interest as well to get the pay clock started for all the work we’ve done getting to that point.

OOfff 11-28-2024 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by Shades of Blue (Post 3856502)
I’ll have to look up that guidance from flight ops. I’m sure it’s in an update or memo amongst the many that they push these days.
If all the doors are closed, that’s the only trigger that allows me to get an out time. If all the doors are closed, it’s highly likely that everyone is also ready to push except possibly the flight attendants who will be ready momentarily.
I see no need to delay getting them an out time when it’s in my own best interest as well to get the pay clock started for all the work we’ve done getting to that point.

guidance from flight ops is specifically to enable identification of pinch points after door close. they don’t want you to “save” the out time, because it hides other operational issues.

whether you believe that or think it’s just to prevent you from getting paid is left as an exercise to the reader, but it’s been explained in many memos and explicitly in vol1 for quite some time.


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