That's the rub, isn't it? Every individual is going to have a different opinion based on their experience.

The trouble is, humans can't even agree on what reality is as each person is viewing life through the tinted lens of their own experience and character profiles. I believe the starting point for answering your question is what kind of world do you want to live in?

This topic is really going to be irrelevant in just a few years anyway. The AI crisis is upon us and the people who should be working on the solution don't even understand the problem.

Airline pilot is a great job right now and hopefully it stays that way for a while. Your example is largely out of context though. No one, ever, needs to drop a quarter milly at riddle to become one. You can get the time and, with or without a degree, get to the same point for way under half that. But that’s just one career track and it’s not for everyone.

I also didn’t say or imply that any ASE certified mech automatically makes 250k. Very few do. But for the cost and effort into blowing well into 6 figures for verification of a free reading list (that’s the vast majority of degrees) you could hustle and make way, way more than the majority of college grads doing something real instead.

Your argument hinges on the old and contextually irrelevant “if you go to college you make a million more than if you don’t” trope. Even if true (and I don’t think it even is) it’s only relevant when you take pilots, surgeons, engineers, Madison Ave marketing and law partners etc and all that. Colleges are meanwhile busy churning out millions of useless degrees for prices no one can justify while telling those without degrees that they need to pay for it.

In most cases, outside of some very specific current career tracks, the same time, effort and money applied elsewhere will get an ambitious young adult much farther and earn much more. I spoke to one disenchanted guy who was almost 100k in debt that he spent on a masters in a garden variety European language. Like LOLWUT? Those stories are the rule not the exception now. College is a racket.

Well, in a discussion about an American social program I'd personally draw the line at American workers. What relevance does a subsistence farmer in Africa have in a discussion on American politics?

Unless you're just making a general point of the great disparity of wealth in this world.

OK for those of you who favor means testing or something along that line:

Where do you cut off?
Over $XXM lifetime earnings?
Over $yyyK 401k and other investments?
House worth over X dollars, regardless of market?

If the IRS/FedGov does what you want, there will be a line somewhere. Where do you want it?

I'm already getting far, far less out of SS than if it was invested in the most plane jane medium performance index fund. Even after you account for the "disability insurance" side of SS.

Since we are on this path, at what point of assets do you start denying medicare because you can "afford" private health insurance?

I paid a tax I personally don't agree with, for a benefit that I was told would be paid. No 'oops, your 401k is over $3m, you are cut off" or "you made over $10m in your lifetime, eff off" limit.

Hey, you paid your property tax but since you own a $1.1M house, you need to pay for private security. Cops aren't going to help you.

The reality is, in our system that those questions will be answered by special interests through their politicians.

Dodging my question. Where do you set the line?

If it was up to me, I'd start with the United Way calculator and go from there. I like the idea of a housing subsidy with a realistic work requirement. I think I understand where you are coming from, people need to be motivated to take care of themselves so things like UBI wouldn't work in this country. The solution to the economic issues here really begins with how to economy and tax system is structured.

I believe that every American should have access to enough calories to be healthy, clean water to drink and a safe place to sleep. I mean that's not to generous is it? There are plenty of people in the US that don't have the things I mentioned.

Is there a line at which people shouldn't be eligible to receive SS benefits? Should Elon Musk be able to draw SS benefits?

Considering there is already a cap on how much can be contributed (withheld) and disbursed, sure. I don't think it needs yet another cap.

Are you saying that Elon Musk should be able to draw SS benefits?