Thoughts on returning from LTD
 

Hey all, long time lurker. I have been out on LTD for a while now and should be betting my medical back soon. Because I’ve been out for so long, I need to choose what category to come back to and I am having a tough time deciding what the best choice for my situation is. I’m hoping to collect some thoughts from other points of view and see if there are considerations or experiences I’m missing.

First off, I am a commuter. It’s a bit of an odd one too, so the only bases that make sense for me are to the east: NYC, BOS, ATL, DTW, and MSP. Between those, BOS is 330 only (discussed later), I really don't want to deal with 3 airports in NYC plus the seniority boost for going there is quite minimal at my seniority. ATL is the opposite, I'm too junior compared to what I would be in the other bases to make it worthwhile. Which leaves MSP and DTW. In addition to the commute, I really don’t feel that reserve is an option for me.

At DL, I've flown the 220, 73N, and 330. My opinion only, but I hated the 737 and have zero desire to fly it again. The 330 was obviously nice, but I am one of those who cannot sleep in the bunk and the sleep schedule killed me. I'm glad I tried it, but I can't keep doing that to myself. I liked the airplane though, so the 320 would be fine. I loved my time on the 220, and would happily fly it again if it makes sense to.

And because of my commute, my kids at home, and a host of other reasons, QOL is super important to me. I mean, I’ll take making more money if I can, and of course I’d like to get paid as much as possible to fly as little as possible. But schedule control is supreme.

All of this put together, I have narrowed it down to three choices: MSP220B, DTW320B, or MSP220A.
- MSP220B: My seniority would put me well into the first page of the wide report. I would have near first pick of any trips, whether they’re PBS, open time, or premium. I'd presumably get lots of training buy-offs as long as training is going on which should be, well, forever. But it's a growing category that has only existed for two bids periods. The flying isn't fully fleshed out and there is a lot of uncertainty in my head about what a schedule would look like here. It could be really nice, or I could end up flying a lot more to make the same money as other positions. There are significantly fewer GS and QS going out than on the 320, and fewer 23M7 payments due to a generally smaller and more reliable route structure. But presumably I could get a lot of those that come up unless and until the situation changes with a new contract.
- DTW320B, I'd be sub-10% seniority, but not even close to the first page which I don’t expect to change anytime soon. But the 320 appears to be where the scheduling "action" is, and this is the second biggest 320B category at the company. That translates into a much wider variety of destinations and schedule adjustment opportunity, along with premium pickup options. Heck, I see some guys on QS#3 already this month. Having said that, I also see that except for the first few guys (area code seniority), 23.M.7’s aren’t super reliable for any one person and all other premium seems to be much more all over the board with who it is assigned to. And just to top it off, the pay rate a decent amount higher, especially considering I could get 321 pay a lot of the time. It’s a similar situation to the 220, it could work or my expectations could be way out of reality.
- MSP220A, just below 50%. I wouldn't have the advantage of being as super senior as I would as a B, but I wouldn't need to fly nearly as much to make the same money which is its own QOL consideration. My concern here isn't so much being able to get exactly what I want, but rather being able to get rid of what I DON'T want. Are mid-seniority NB A pilots able to drop flying at all and get down to a low credit line, like 50 hours? Even during the summer? Another consideration here is that I still have the 1 yr CA upgrade ticket in my back pocket. If I take a B position and it doesn’t work out as I want, I can transition up after only a year.

I realize that this is a golden handcuffs situation. I have three really good options, and I’m grateful to be in that position. But this is the first time in my career I have the chance to be truly senior, and I want to take advantage of all that that entrails. I'm really curious to see what it's like on this side of the seniority fence. Can anyone offer what life is currently like as a senior B or mid-seniority A out on the line?

Obviously DTW717B.

You mentioned folks being on multiple QS for the month in DTW, keep in mind as a commuter, most of those QS trips will be out of reach for you. They're running that coverage close enough to report time to make any reasonable commute by air unavailable

QS put a sizable dent in premium flying for commuters. Nothing goes out as a GS anymore and QS are too close in to try and snag for most commuters.

So basically, “sucks to be the 50% of pilots at this airline that commute.”

QS should have gone to a vote by the pilots, but what do I know…

PM sent.

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No it didn’t. QS replaced IA phone calls which were already non-commutable.

Where are you getting your “sizable dent” data?

Right. But CS goes straight to QS, skipping GS, these days. So in effect, QS has replaced GS is a practical sense.

That said, it seems CS goes to QS so early in some categories that QS is doable for some commuters.

Heres one for you… positive space commute to work for QS.

I guess I should have mentioned that the commute will mean I have to come in a day early every time. As long as I can be fairly certain of picking up flying close-in, I'm willing to commute in on days I would've flown anyways. So I'll be available for the days following. I'm thinking for example, if I were to fly in on monday, I could grab something that flies Tu/We.

Before QS, they went straight to IA, skipping GS.

QS didn't change anything with regard to commutability of premium offerings.

Because when CS gives up on trying to fill the onerous amounts of OOBWS requests filed by pilots all over the country who have no intention of commuting and flying a WS in that base, they have no choice but to go to QS (inserted before IA) and essentially paying triple to cover every premium trip. They'd love to have a system where GS ruled the premium again, but they can rarely get to that step of coverage before really jamming up the schedule. All QS did was insert some seniority into the IA process which was a free-for-all and often causes deal making.

Well, again, the problem is the fact that it can’t get to GS because of farmers. Not bemoaning people using their PWA privileges, but the reason it isn’t getting to GS isn’t because of QS.

Edit: nene had a better explanation .

This is just for your verification: have you been out for at least 6-months of "Unpaid Status" (actual STD/LTD)

The reason I bring this up is that, if you've been out for a total of 6-9 months, the first several months are considered "Paid Status" while you burned through your Sick time/Vacation.

If you haven't been out for 6 months of actual STD/LTD, you return to the BES from which you left. No choice. Then you are at the whim of the AE system for your next move.

You are only going a single step into this analysis. It's because the company chooses to run "a little hot" setting up the circumstances for 23M7. The root cause has nothing to do with pilots. The company exploited 23M7 and then negotiated it's expanded use. They chose to design schedule coverage around their newfound win and... consequences. Add in their batch size choices and PB day consent choice and you no longer have people readily available or willing to come in on off days. Commuters can be farmers too and probably had more OBWS experience than the masses.

My first thought after reading your “wants” was 320B.
Since you flew 330, it will be like riding a bike. It’s sooo nice being in the top 10% seniority. Especially as a commuter.

as already pointed out, this is not true. All it did was replace IA free for all with a seniority based system that has accountability and a paper trail.

Respectfully, (not defending some of the companies moves), but this feels like a pilots/company created phenomenon. The fact that many categories never even get to GS stage of trip coverage often tells me a combo of CS inexperience, and OOBWS/WS shenanigans is F'ing up the system that had prevailed for a generation.

I don't have the data (and don't care that much about it since I can't control it) but we've been run VERY hot before. Long before ALPA put in the reroute restrictions (IDK but circa 2018 or so) there was a time where we were so short that the company just rerouted you almost every rotation to cover broken trips. Only thing that stayed mostly constant was start/stop day. Newer contracts have put serious $$$ penalties to that behavior and even tho we may be short, there has to be oodles of pilots who would come in for GS pay, just never given the opportunity, meanwhile the company pays daily triple time on multiple trips.

IMO, we can all go "yeah, we have the company by the shorthairs" as they prioritize completion over costs at the moment, but this cost will come from the hides/wallets of the hordes of other pilots who won't sit around and farm for 23M7.

That provision for years was to cover immediate happen chances, like "hey, pilot here on scene wants to fly, but someone was due a chance for that trip", so to make everyone whole and cover the trip. For most of my time here, it was seldom used, now it's used on most of the premium trips in my category, effectively making them all pay triple time. That is not sustainable to the company, and not equitable to the pilot group as a whole.

Haven't heard RES pilots mentioned in these last couple pages so here's a hot take.

Both GS and QS are lower in the coverage ladder than RES. If there are RES available, they're used first. Or at least they should be. 23M7 or not.

There aren't enough RES pilots (and/or their availability is being throttled), hence GS/QS.

My vote DTW320B. Being top page on MSP220B sounds great, but as you said, it's not been fleshed out, less trip diversity, and slightly fewer bases for potential OOB flying (read front/back end DH) opportunities. Of course the OOB stuff will get better when we finally put this m7 madness behind us, if we don't move OOBWS that is. Even if you're not on the the top page, top 10% is an amazing place to be. I thought life was good when I hit 30%, but being at 8-15% was insanely better. Pick your trips, pick your days off, pick your vacations, trip buys, first shot at GS/SS/QS/etc, first shot at dropping trips. Wife wants to know if you can attend an event 6 months from now? No problem, at that seniority, you know you have it off. If you're not going to go WB, I vote to go where you're the highest seniority in the 320.

You are correct and the change was when the COMPANY started using 23M7 at will. The pilots didn't have anything to do with that choice. The resultant fiasco culminated in the new 23M7 use with the 8 hour restriction. The sustainability is entirely up to the company. 23M7 is meant as a deterrent to undermanning and the COMPANY has chosen to pay the penalty over staffing more pilots and schedulers (ie little/lot hot). Per DJs letter yesterday they have now changed course and are correcting the staffing problem. The system worked and continues to work.

Even when they do have SC available who are legal, they're completely missing them and going to QS. So they're paying M7 and QS, when they could just pay M7 and use a reserve. Their lack of automation is costing them bigly!

Not seeing that in my category (WB B). Lots of GS, fewer QS. And when QS is implemented, even as a commuter, I’m able to get a QS here and there. Lots of mainline flights between my home and base, tho. Definitely see how 320 and 737 would see fewer GSs. No point (or time) to going through hundreds of OOBWS, knowing QS is going to be used.

The autoaccepting phenomenon would never have happened if they used reasonable batch sizes, period, end of story. Completely their fault it led to this.

Make sure you get the guide to returning from disability. Follow it carefully to insure you don’t miss any benefits particularly with regard to the sick bank.

It’s been that way for at least a decade. I used to sit a lot of reserve and I would be on sc yet they’d go to gs right away and leave me in the breach. I think cs sees sc as insurance policy if gs doesn’t attract pilots.

I used to sit a lot of reserve and very rarely did I ever have a trip I was legal for, go to a GS. I must be unlucky in that regard.

happened to me the other day. Weird 1 day trip 6 hours to report. 6 SC As available, a few on the B side. Went out as QS both seats. Mind boggling they’re paying 300% when they could pay 100% for the trip.

I have stated many times it’s the company’s problem to fix, and it’s not the pilots problem to fix. Especially not outside of Sec 6 and not without massive gains.

as a point of order, when we had reasonable batch sizes, tons of people had the slips in hoping for batch size violations. Just a different version of the same story.

Having a slip in and having auto accept on are two widely different coverage impactors. Auto accept due to batch sizes, and farming due to QS by 23M7 are the result of the company's batch size decision. The costs are incurred and timeliness suffers precisely because of the company's decisions. It would be interesting to see the costs side by side to see how they stack up. 300% with immediate coverage versus a few hours pay for each pilot based on the number over the limit they chose to use. The results would be similar for pilots if they could effectively "farm" batch overage without needing auto accept to protect rest.

The masses would probably be more satisfied with the penalty distribution too as more pilots would get smaller payments and potentially more often. None of this occurs with proper staffing for pilots and schedulers. Reducing headcount at any cost has come back to haunt them and pilots are collecting on that decision as it should be per the PWA and 23M7. The deterrent clause in this situation at least has paid dividends by choice of the company. Well, when they choose to comply and pay properly at least. Timeliness and transparency is another matter.

And in the case of a reserve that doesn’t even reach guarantee it’s essentially free (already paid for).

Got one batch size violation that entire time, plenty of 23M7 payments to my time card lately though.

The current situation is costing the company waaaayyyyy more than batch size violations ever did. They made this bed.

Not even remotely close to the same thing.

Furthermore, these are minor things historically solved by management and the union getting together and hashing things out. Sometimes, gasp, management throws the union a small win in exchange for something. Or we trade "hostages."

One person alone is solely responsible for this dragging out and astronomically gumming things up.