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Old 05-21-2012, 02:24 PM   #100261  
looking for underboob
bohicagain's Avatar
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 717 A
Posts: 780

As a top 20 at CPZ with a possibility of flowing how can I get a copy of the TA?
Very interested in looking at this TA just like my buddy Junglebus
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #100262  
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 916

Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
Okay, we've got too many threads going.

And I can't figure out whether to put the pay table... scratch that the ESTIMATED NOT REAL PLEASE DON'T USE AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A REFERENCE FTB PAY TABLE... in the positive TA or negative TA thread.

Damn, if only the 19% had turned out to be right.
Thanks Bid!
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #100263  
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,869

Essentially the small jet scope goes like this, if I read it correctly.

Right now they're permitted 153 76 seaters and 255 70+ seaters total. Once the fleet count goes up, they can 'convert' 3 70 seaters to 3 76 seaters, up to the hard cap of 255.

Currently, there's no snap back, so once they're on the property, they're here to stay.

If the total mainline hulls is, for instance, 40 below the cutoff. The company adds 100 aircraft. That puts the number of additional 76 seat jets 60 over the cutoff, so that's 60 x
3 = 180 for a total of 333 76 seaters. But this would be capped at 255 due to the hardcap. In reality, the company only needs to add 34 hulls over the cutoff to get all 255 at 76 seats.

They could then park those airplanes in short order, and you're left sucking it with 255 large jets.

The way I read the new TA, the current caps remain unless the aircraft ponies up the new hulls. It's tied to block hours and there is a snap back. The hard cap is lowered from 255
to 223.

Assuming the company was going to order the 100 seaters anyway, you'd wind up with fewer large RJs under the TA than the current book, and there are snap back provisions.

NOT A YES VOTER, just trying to understand the NC's reasoning.

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Old 05-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #100264  
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113

At least we're getting X:XX hours for training.

X:XX? What are we, Romans? Or did we forget to wrap this thing up?
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #100265  
The Brown Dot +1
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,771

As I read section 1, I don't see any negotiation. All I see is agreement with the companies (pre)plans.

The rapid drawdown of the 50s for debt relaxation to buy 76s. Which wasn't allowed by our scope. And it attempts to tie in The 717 (80 each), which was signed between DAL and SWA 3-4 weeks ago, added in to appear like we got something.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #100266  
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 195
Thumbs down

Unbelievable. The ta is now on the website and in the scope section it says if the company gets a new narrowbody plane type they can go up to a total of 223 76 jets with still 102 70 seat jets. That's right 70 more 76 seaters!!! HELL NO!
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:40 PM   #100267  
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113

This thing is supposed to ride on the details, and Section 1, because it certainly isn't going to ride on the rates, right?

If so, who thought it would be a good idea to give a 477-page reading assignment, where the details are buried? I can't even get my brain to latch on to Section 1. Every time I think I've got it, it runs into an "excused compliance" clause, and I freeze up as I need to reboot.

Still keeping an open mind, but TO's letter and the delivery of this thing... not good.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #100268  
The Brown Dot +1
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,771

Can you say "meet and confer?"

Company will hire 35% of new hires
in Delta pilot new-hire classes in each trailing twelve
month period (to the extent airmen are available) with ALPA-represented
airmen at Delta Connection Carriers, subject to such airmen meeting the
Company’s competitive hiring standards, and subject to the Company’s
objectives for diversity and experience among newly hired pilots. Airmen who
flow up pursuant to LOA #24 and LOA #25 count toward satisfaction of such
minimum percentage.

Last edited by scambo1; 05-21-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:55 PM   #100269  
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Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 607

I wonder what will happen to Pinnacle, Mesaba and Comair's 50 seat jets? Delta just gave 74 million in DIP financing to Pinnacle. Delta can wipe out all the 50 seat jets at Pinnacle/Mesabe for non-compliance. Delta can wipe out all the 50 seats jets at Comair. I wonder what will happen next? Why do the pilots have to bail out management mistakes??

Comair- 100- 50 seat jets

Pinnalce- 124- 50 seat jets

Mesaba- 13- 50 seat jets
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:55 PM   #100270  
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Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: SLC 767ER Captain
Posts: 602

Hey guys, Iím back, did you miss me? NO. LOL In well over twenty some odd years with DAL, I have only voted YES one time, and I actually lived to regret even that YES vote (PRP 777). Obviously other than the "sales pitch highlights," I haven't read this thing yet, but considering the dismal outlook of the economy, the uncertainty of gas prices, and the current state of the industry, so far this thing exceeds my expectations. I truly didnít expect it to be something I would even have to consider voting yes for. Iím actually going to have to read this thing, because only a fine tooth comb look at it will tell. Right now it is the so called Reserve System enhancements that have me concerned. At first glance it appears that it will create a need for fewer pilots. Not really sure. Hopefully without sounding melodramatic, I will say that just like the 2012 Presidential elections, this contract and vote may be the most important one of our lifetimes. Iím going to get my butt kicked for this one, but a few of the furlough protection things I also have a problem with as well. INCOMING! Not something that would change my vote, and I can explain why if anyone cares.
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