Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-12-2009, 07:09 AM
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Yep... In the most recent magazine there was a pretty extensive article about EFBs. They want them, but not the current generation (sounds oddly familiar to something else we're "looking in to)... they are waiting for a next generation that will be more fully integrated.
The problem with the EFBs on the 777 and proposed 787 is that they are integrated with the a/c. In theory, that is certified with the plane. A change to that changes the certification status of the plane. You want an EFB that will allow seamless updates for the life of the plane. I haven't followed the EFB designs the past couple of years but they could very easily be seeing that the first two generations didn't warrant the investment.
07-12-2009, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralphie
Thanks for posting that Denny. I suppose we've been just as close to the pink slip as ACL alluded to. Makes it sound like if someone farts too loudly that will be enough to tip the scales. Good times.
This sums up what I have been saying.
07-12-2009, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
In a former life, I evaluated bringing EFBs onto another airline. Granted, the planes weren't Boeing but the choices a few years ago did not make it economically viable. The financial problems were Jeppessens refusal to bring the revision costs below that of paper revisions. The actual EFB cost thousands of dollars. It was more expensive to do an EFB than stick with paper. The Board wouldn't sign off on it since there was no ROI. Another issue was cockpit space. The major issue which made it non doable was the fact that you had to have redundant power sources to the EFB. It involved major maintenance downtime.
The problem with the EFBs on the 777 and proposed 787 is that they are integrated with the a/c. In theory, that is certified with the plane. A change to that changes the certification status of the plane. You want an EFB that will allow seamless updates for the life of the plane. I haven't followed the EFB designs the past couple of years but they could very easily be seeing that the first two generations didn't warrant the investment.
The problem with the EFBs on the 777 and proposed 787 is that they are integrated with the a/c. In theory, that is certified with the plane. A change to that changes the certification status of the plane. You want an EFB that will allow seamless updates for the life of the plane. I haven't followed the EFB designs the past couple of years but they could very easily be seeing that the first two generations didn't warrant the investment.
07-12-2009, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Ralphie,
All I can say is "prepare for the worst and hope for the best!" Good luck to all of us.
Denny
All I can say is "prepare for the worst and hope for the best!" Good luck to all of us.
Denny
Sounds like business as usual.
Next year will be very yelling and where DAL goes from here.
07-12-2009, 09:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
I guess we can blame Jeppesen for the way things are.
They charge customers by "sets of eyes" viewing the charts
Shipsets = same number of "sets of eyes"
EFB = still same number of "sets of eyes"
Bottom line: no ROI for changing the status quo with Jeppesen....
They have a strange obsession pushing the paper product
Cheers
George
They charge customers by "sets of eyes" viewing the charts
Shipsets = same number of "sets of eyes"
EFB = still same number of "sets of eyes"
Bottom line: no ROI for changing the status quo with Jeppesen....
They have a strange obsession pushing the paper product
Cheers
George
07-12-2009, 10:08 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by pep talk
To address the furlough rumors, in a memo back in June, Richard and Ed discussed the fact that with additional capacity reductions recently announced, we must reassess our staffing needs. They stated that our goal remains to avoid any involuntary furloughs of frontline employees. That goal is unchanged.
I have to be very candid with you, though. Make no mistake, due to the capacity reductions we have experienced, we are carrying excess pilots on a systemwide basis, and once the fall pulldown occurs, that excess will increase. However, taking into account the corporate goal of achieving SOC by year’s end, the likelihood of realigning some equipment throughout our bases next year, ensuring we are staffed to meet the summer flying demands for 2010 and Network’s indication that they would like to increase flying on the M88, A320, B737 and DC 9 fleets, I have made the decision to maintain our current systemwide pilot staffing levels and we will not furlough at this time.
After the final number of pilots who elect to participate in the PRIP is determined, we will be able to post a displacement bid in August which should allow us to balance our immediate staffing needs. So the next question is, “where will those displacements come from?” Most likely, capacity will be coming out of the 757 and 767 fleets but the specific numbers and bases of how many and where are still being evaluated. I can tell you that we do not intend to displace any more pilots than we have to. As I’ve said many times, with the continual flux in our network plans, we will wind our watches and take a deep breath before any decisions are made with respect to displacements or base realignments.
Here’s the bottom line: although we are currently carrying a surplus of pilots in our system and can never completely take furloughs off the table, we are not furloughing pilots at this time nor are we likely to in the near future. We will continue to evaluate the situation in light of the economic environment and the requirements being placed upon us by the Network schedule. You can expect though to see a bid with a number of surpluses posted in the early August time frame similar in magnitude to the one we posted earlier this year. Should anything change, we will let you know right away.
I have to be very candid with you, though. Make no mistake, due to the capacity reductions we have experienced, we are carrying excess pilots on a systemwide basis, and once the fall pulldown occurs, that excess will increase. However, taking into account the corporate goal of achieving SOC by year’s end, the likelihood of realigning some equipment throughout our bases next year, ensuring we are staffed to meet the summer flying demands for 2010 and Network’s indication that they would like to increase flying on the M88, A320, B737 and DC 9 fleets, I have made the decision to maintain our current systemwide pilot staffing levels and we will not furlough at this time.
After the final number of pilots who elect to participate in the PRIP is determined, we will be able to post a displacement bid in August which should allow us to balance our immediate staffing needs. So the next question is, “where will those displacements come from?” Most likely, capacity will be coming out of the 757 and 767 fleets but the specific numbers and bases of how many and where are still being evaluated. I can tell you that we do not intend to displace any more pilots than we have to. As I’ve said many times, with the continual flux in our network plans, we will wind our watches and take a deep breath before any decisions are made with respect to displacements or base realignments.
Here’s the bottom line: although we are currently carrying a surplus of pilots in our system and can never completely take furloughs off the table, we are not furloughing pilots at this time nor are we likely to in the near future. We will continue to evaluate the situation in light of the economic environment and the requirements being placed upon us by the Network schedule. You can expect though to see a bid with a number of surpluses posted in the early August time frame similar in magnitude to the one we posted earlier this year. Should anything change, we will let you know right away.
Then, we will be fat about 2,000 pilots in the fall of 2010. As ACL so insightfully pointed out be very afraid if you see 800 MD88 First Officers and 400 Captains. Right now, Delta is still staffed per its "go it alone" plan. It has taken two displacement bids to adjust and probably will need about another two or three to push junior pilots to the junior equipment to furlough them.
A year and a half ago a prediction was posted of significant furloughs around December 2010. I wrote my ALPA Reps pleading for rationalization of our scope language and policies while there was still time, and management was at the negotiating table. This was a follow up to my pre JPWA pleading that we bring Compass over to the mainline list while management had mergers on their mind.
While things are always changing, December 2010 is a date that matches a confluence of other factors. Then you figure in the retirement of the DC9's with no replacement on the horizon and it appears this could be a furlough followed by stagnation until NWA's first waves of retirements come around.
I'd rather fly an E175 in a Delta uniform than a 757 in an Allegient uniform. Our Reps frankly could not care less. They see a furlough as a right of passage and ours is due, so we should "be tough and take it like a man," regardless of the fact that furloughs could be avoided if we actually performed Delta's flying. (note that some of the smartest are running for Flight Operations Management positions to avoid the carnage ... a good move for those qualified, inclined and connected)
In the last downturn, DCI hired more than three times the number of pilots that Delta furloughed.
While the majority of this unpleasantness will impact the South pilots, the North pilots will also be impacted as the better jobs go increasingly senior. The dream sheet shopping list presented by junior Delta South positions is going to dry up and disappear, although it is beyond my very simple model to predict how much and where.
As always, I hope I am mistaken. There is no joy in being right about our failure to negotiate unity. Those against unity are going to find us going into contract 2012 negotiations with hostages haven been taken.
* Note: I am not predicting 2,000 furloughs. There will be less than that. The airline needs more than minimum staffing for contingencies. How much over probably depends on economic forecasts, fuel and a host of other factors.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 07-12-2009 at 10:27 AM.
07-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Can't abide NAI
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Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by georgetg
I guess we can blame Jeppesen for the way things are.
An airline the size of Delta could simply develop its own. Anyone recall how Jeppessen got started in the first place for United?
If I was in negotiations with Boeing / Jepp my first step would be to file a press release that we are developing a competing product and assign some managers to a new division while making sure their business cards got left around the bars frequented by Jepp management. Once they were all taking blood pressure medication, I'd negotiate a deal.
Hey, alter ego works on pilots. Why not database vendors?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 07-12-2009 at 10:24 AM.
07-12-2009, 10:21 AM
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Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Bottom line is, they need everyone singing kum by yah until they get their single operating certificate, then the gloves come off. The fleet rationalization begins in earnest and "syngergies" are fully realized. This will take about 4,500 pilots off line and put them in the schoolhouse. We will need staffing to get us through that in the summer of 2010.
Then, we will be fat about 2,000 pilots in the fall of 2010. As ACL so insightfully pointed out be very afraid if you see 800 MD88 First Officers and 400 Captains. Right now, Delta is still staffed per its "go it alone" plan. It has taken two displacement bids to adjust and probably will need about another two or three to push junior pilots to the junior equipment to furlough them.
A year and a half ago a prediction was posted of significant furloughs around December 2010. I wrote my ALPA Reps pleading for rationalization of our scope language and policies while there was still time, and management was at the negotiating table. This was a follow up to my pre JPWA pleading that we bring Compass over to the mainline list while management had mergers on their mind.
While things are always changing, December 2010 is a date that matches a confluence of other factors. Then you figure in the retirement of the DC9's with no replacement on the horizon and it appears this could be a furlough followed by stagnation until NWA's first waves of retirements come around.
I'd rather fly an E175 in a Delta uniform than a 757 in an Allegient uniform. Our Reps frankly could not care less. They see a furlough as a right of passage and ours is due, so we should "be tough and take it like a man," regardless of the fact that furloughs could be avoided if we actually performed Delta's flying. (note that some of the smartest are running for Flight Operations Management positions to avoid the carnage ... a good move for those qualified, inclined and connected)
In the last downturn, DCI hired more than three times the number of pilots that Delta furloughed.
While the majority of this unpleasantness will impact the South pilots, the North pilots will also be impacted as the better jobs go increasingly senior. The dream sheet shopping list presented by junior Delta South positions is going to dry up and disappear, although it is beyond my very simple model to predict how much and where.
As always, I hope I am mistaken. There is no joy in being right about our failure to negotiate unity. Those against unity are going to find us going into contract 2012 negotiations with hostages haven been taken.
Then, we will be fat about 2,000 pilots in the fall of 2010. As ACL so insightfully pointed out be very afraid if you see 800 MD88 First Officers and 400 Captains. Right now, Delta is still staffed per its "go it alone" plan. It has taken two displacement bids to adjust and probably will need about another two or three to push junior pilots to the junior equipment to furlough them.
A year and a half ago a prediction was posted of significant furloughs around December 2010. I wrote my ALPA Reps pleading for rationalization of our scope language and policies while there was still time, and management was at the negotiating table. This was a follow up to my pre JPWA pleading that we bring Compass over to the mainline list while management had mergers on their mind.
While things are always changing, December 2010 is a date that matches a confluence of other factors. Then you figure in the retirement of the DC9's with no replacement on the horizon and it appears this could be a furlough followed by stagnation until NWA's first waves of retirements come around.
I'd rather fly an E175 in a Delta uniform than a 757 in an Allegient uniform. Our Reps frankly could not care less. They see a furlough as a right of passage and ours is due, so we should "be tough and take it like a man," regardless of the fact that furloughs could be avoided if we actually performed Delta's flying. (note that some of the smartest are running for Flight Operations Management positions to avoid the carnage ... a good move for those qualified, inclined and connected)
In the last downturn, DCI hired more than three times the number of pilots that Delta furloughed.
While the majority of this unpleasantness will impact the South pilots, the North pilots will also be impacted as the better jobs go increasingly senior. The dream sheet shopping list presented by junior Delta South positions is going to dry up and disappear, although it is beyond my very simple model to predict how much and where.
As always, I hope I am mistaken. There is no joy in being right about our failure to negotiate unity. Those against unity are going to find us going into contract 2012 negotiations with hostages haven been taken.
07-12-2009, 10:27 AM
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Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
FWIW, I too have heard the number 2000 used in the same sentence as pilots overstaffed post SOC
It is a small murmur right now, and nothing more than that, but I assume it is coming from somewhere reliable......
Economy improves and it will not be an issue. We need to recapture our flying so that the over staffing problems do not effect delta pilots as they did in 2001!
It is a small murmur right now, and nothing more than that, but I assume it is coming from somewhere reliable......
Economy improves and it will not be an issue. We need to recapture our flying so that the over staffing problems do not effect delta pilots as they did in 2001!
07-12-2009, 10:29 AM
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Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Who needs Jepp/Boeing? It is public data.
An airline the size of Delta could simply develop its own. Anyone recall how Jeppessen got started in the first place for United?
If I was in negotiations with Boeing / Jepp my first step would be to file a press release that we are developing a competing product and assign some managers to a new division while making sure their business cards got left around the bars frequented by Jepp management. Once they were all taking blood pressure medication, I'd negotiate a deal.
Hey, alter ego works on pilots. Why not database vendors?
An airline the size of Delta could simply develop its own. Anyone recall how Jeppessen got started in the first place for United?
If I was in negotiations with Boeing / Jepp my first step would be to file a press release that we are developing a competing product and assign some managers to a new division while making sure their business cards got left around the bars frequented by Jepp management. Once they were all taking blood pressure medication, I'd negotiate a deal.
Hey, alter ego works on pilots. Why not database vendors?
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