Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-23-2012, 04:22 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I disagree with you Carl. I think the former regional jet guys realize that this is a scope sell. We do not buy ALPA's argument that getting 70 new 76 seaters that are not currently allowed is good for us. It's the military guys that don't think for themselves that are going to vote this in.
05-23-2012, 04:27 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by JungleBus
Allowing management to dump 250 old, inefficient RJs they've been dying to get rid of anyways and letting them by 70 new, efficient, 757-CASM mainline replacement jets they've been dying to get their hands on? Scope down.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
05-23-2012, 04:29 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by bigbusdriver
631 total RJs (unlimited 50 seat and Q-400s allowed):
376 50s 18,800 seats
102 70s 7,140 seats
153 76s 11,628 seats
Total= 37,568 seats
Without TA with more narrow bodies:
376 50s (unlimited) = 18,800+ seats
255 76s = 19,380
Total = 38,180 minimum
With TA: 450 RJs Capped
125 50s = 6,250
102 70s = 7,140 seats
223 76s (32 less) = 16,948
Total = 30,338 seats
Mainline adds 10,296 seats
DCI loss 7230 seats (plus any evilQ400 planes)
Scope up or Scope down?
376 50s 18,800 seats
102 70s 7,140 seats
153 76s 11,628 seats
Total= 37,568 seats
Without TA with more narrow bodies:
376 50s (unlimited) = 18,800+ seats
255 76s = 19,380
Total = 38,180 minimum
With TA: 450 RJs Capped
125 50s = 6,250
102 70s = 7,140 seats
223 76s (32 less) = 16,948
Total = 30,338 seats
Mainline adds 10,296 seats
DCI loss 7230 seats (plus any evilQ400 planes)
Scope up or Scope down?
Scope down. imho.
fwiw, the 70 seaters don't seat 70. And frankly, I need to go back and look and see if we have any non 50 seat CRJ-200s.
05-23-2012, 04:29 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Nice while it lasted
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl
Carl
05-23-2012, 04:34 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by bigdaddie
Let me throw this out to you. I have no inside information or influence but this is just food for thought. Let's say this TA is resubmitted with the following changes, would it be acceptable?
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
I think it's time to release the survey results. Seeing as the results were withheld under the rationale that exposing said results could compromise the negotiator's position, now that the negotiation process is complete DALPA has no reason to withhold that information.
To all the guys supporting this TA/defending DALPA I have one question....
If this is the BEST the negotiators could come up with, that what is the WORSE they could have come back to us with?
05-23-2012, 04:38 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by bigdaddie
Let me throw this out to you. I have no inside information or influence but this is just food for thought. Let's say this TA is resubmitted with the following changes, would it be acceptable?
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
05-23-2012, 04:38 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,920
I was told by an ALPA representative last year that Richard Anderson is expecting to raise our pay 30 percent through the life of our next contract. This TA does not do that. What happened?
05-23-2012, 04:47 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL717A
Posts: 890
I'll preface this by saying I'm just a line dude. Not an ALPA guy. Don't go to meetings. Not a Company guy. Don't go to Delta family fun days.
I go to work, fly my trips as safely and efficiently as possible, and come home. I cherish my time at home, but still enjoy my job.
I think I'm about as average as it gets.
I've had a couple of days to digest this TA, and without question, am a solid "no" voter based on everything I've read so far. I'll be the first to admit, I've voted "yes" in the past. I've believed ALPA had my best interest at heart...those guys are in the loop and have knowledge well beyond anything I could comprehend.
This time, it isn't happening. In order: #1 - what's the rush to get this done? I still haven't been told to my satisfaction why it was so crucial (for us) to get this thing signed off so soon. #2 - Scope. I said not one more seat should be given away. I'm sticking to that, and without question, seats are being given away here. Spin it any way you like - we're getting the crap side of the stick. #3 - pay isn't even close. Enough said. We're in the position to make huge money, and I can't believe what's being proposed is anything remotely close to the survey results.
When you buy a car, house, see an auction, watch Pawn Stars, bid on Ebay, etc, do you settle for the first offer? No, you counter with a better offer in your favor. Why would I ever consider voting for this, when my career for the next 3 to 4 years is at stake?
I go to work, fly my trips as safely and efficiently as possible, and come home. I cherish my time at home, but still enjoy my job.
I think I'm about as average as it gets.
I've had a couple of days to digest this TA, and without question, am a solid "no" voter based on everything I've read so far. I'll be the first to admit, I've voted "yes" in the past. I've believed ALPA had my best interest at heart...those guys are in the loop and have knowledge well beyond anything I could comprehend.
This time, it isn't happening. In order: #1 - what's the rush to get this done? I still haven't been told to my satisfaction why it was so crucial (for us) to get this thing signed off so soon. #2 - Scope. I said not one more seat should be given away. I'm sticking to that, and without question, seats are being given away here. Spin it any way you like - we're getting the crap side of the stick. #3 - pay isn't even close. Enough said. We're in the position to make huge money, and I can't believe what's being proposed is anything remotely close to the survey results.
When you buy a car, house, see an auction, watch Pawn Stars, bid on Ebay, etc, do you settle for the first offer? No, you counter with a better offer in your favor. Why would I ever consider voting for this, when my career for the next 3 to 4 years is at stake?
05-23-2012, 04:48 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL 7ER FO
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I was told by an ALPA representative last year that Richard Anderson is expecting to raise our pay 30 percent through the life of our next contract. This TA does not do that. What happened?
05-23-2012, 04:52 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
DOCTORS NOTE FOR SICK LEAVE REQUIRED.
Go read it, it's in the TA. And it has to be a Doctor, not a nurse practitioner.
If you get sick under this TA, expect massive retaliation from the company, and a lot of administrative duties for you...
Go read it, it's in the TA. And it has to be a Doctor, not a nurse practitioner.
If you get sick under this TA, expect massive retaliation from the company, and a lot of administrative duties for you...
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