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Old 08-26-2009, 10:52 AM   #13241  
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"but there are reports that during the Flight Operations Road Shows a September 2010 date for mailing of notices is anticipated"

Bucking bar....how in the heck can you say something so far down the road? It's not even September 2009 yet.

ps. Have you seen the retirements JUST in august? NIIIICE!!!
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:56 AM   #13242  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
As for CPS. There may be some real genius in keeping them off the property. I hate to say it, but I see it. It has to do with all of the other DCI carriers needed to be in the bottom two of cost. Well, CPS is the cheapest, so it only leave one other that is in compliance at the five year mark.
Genius? Why yes, our management is smart. I would not want to work for anyone else.

We should see DCI for what it is; our low cost replacement pilot competition. If Compass beats down the costs of DCI, then how big a concession should we be prepared to take to continue operation of our MD88's, A318's, DC9's and 737's? The most significant variable costs in an apples to apples comparison is labor. ALPA should not be in the business of beating down labor costs.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 08-26-2009 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:58 AM   #13243  
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Are you saying Compass is their to keep the other DCI carriers "honest" with their costs? How many DCI carriers are required to be in the bottom two of costs? (I know ASA is one). If that is true talk about whipsaw......How is Compass the cheapest, is it only because of the junior labor costs or is Delta fudging the numbers to keep the others in line?
Delta won't have to "fudge" anything. The contracts with Skywest and ASA are written in such a way the Delta will have the right to alter the contracts or the carriers will suffer a large penalty. ASA / Skywest cannot compete with the cost structure of Compass or Pinnacle, just as you say, due to cost of employee longevity. It’s not right but it is what it is.

This is the main reason to not make a career of a Regional airline. Regardless of scope or any other issue, in the long run, unless you are willing to work for peanuts you will be replaced by someone who is.

The only way to fix this whipsaw is for mainline pilots to recapture and control the flying.

Last edited by vprMatrix; 08-26-2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Add
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:03 AM   #13244  
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"but there are reports that during the Flight Operations Road Shows a September 2010 date for mailing of notices is anticipated"

Bucking bar....how in the heck can you say something so far down the road? It's not even September 2009 yet.

ps. Have you seen the retirements JUST in august? NIIIICE!!!
Fly - I'm quoting from the Flight Operations Management Road Show presentation. That's their forecast, which happens to match the confluence of factors in my crystal ball as well.

Back when we were briefed on the JPWA scope provisions wrote down "DEC 2010" on my pad and ACL65 asked me why I wrote that. Beside that date I wrote "furloughs," just based on my expectation we would carry extra pilots through SOC, then rationalize the network, then the timing worked out perfectly with the expiration of many of our furlough protections in the JPWA, for example:
Quote:
3. For a period of 24 months following December 8, 2008, no pilot on the seniority list will be placed on furlough as a result of the merger between the Company and Northwest.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:06 AM   #13245  
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Are you saying Compass is their to keep the other DCI carriers "honest" with their costs? How many DCI carriers are required to be in the bottom two of costs? (I know ASA is one). If that is true talk about whipsaw......How is Compass the cheapest, is it only because of the junior labor costs or is Delta fudging the numbers to keep the others in line?
I believe Mesa is required to be cheapest, and ASA 2nd cheapest. Neither is close to Compass - I have heard numbers thrown around that CPS is 30% cheaper. It seems to me that CPS is the stick being used to beat the rest of DCI into shape.

Sad, but f-ing true.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:18 AM   #13246  
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It seems to me that CPS is the stick being used to beat the rest of DCI into shape.

Sad, but f-ing true.
For now. Look at Mesaba for an example of a regional "restaffing." They chased a lot of pilots off, then grew with new hires. SkyWest does a little of that with ASA by shuffling jets and forcing pilots to lose longevity as they chase the flying around. We saw several pilots chase flying from ACA to, Comair, to ASA, to SkyWest.

These regionals are simply the flavor of the day and when management wants to they simply destroy a job at one certificate and create a new hire "opportunity" at another airline within the brand.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:33 AM   #13247  
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These regionals are simply the flavor of the day and when management wants to they simply destroy a job at one certificate and create a new hire "opportunity" at another airline within the brand.
Pardon my previous statement - THAT is what's sad, but f-ing true. Only one true way to end the whipsawing, right?
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:34 AM   #13248  
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And that is my point. CPS being an outsourced labor group and rock bottom cheap company is going to allow DAL many major concessions from these FFD airlines. Brian Bedford sees it and is running the other way.

I agree that CPS needs to be put on our list. I am offering up an explanation as to why our union is dragging their feet on the CPS issue. I have been looking at this from multiple angles and this is what I see.
Looking a few steps down the road, I can see the FFD contracts being cut and many significant changes being made, allowing DAL and DALPA opportunities that they do not have today, and then once that happens, seeing CPS added to the list.

See CPS is a cheap airline to run because off of it is basically NWA/DAL. Once the hiring and flow picks back up, it will be very expensive to run CPS with the current arrangement. These jets have the economics to be run at mainline with mainline book rates, We know it, and the company knows it and the airline managers of DCI know it. It is ugly and CPS is a big stick.

I am just putting this out there to see if, I for one am coming up with a wrong conclusion, or anyone else has something to add to it.

This is where ACL has been, Looking at the dots and trying to connect them
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:41 AM   #13249  
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Fly - I'm quoting from the Flight Operations Management Road Show presentation. That's their forecast, which happens to match the confluence of factors in my crystal ball as well.

Back when we were briefed on the JPWA scope provisions wrote down "DEC 2010" on my pad and ACL65 asked me why I wrote that. Beside that date I wrote "furloughs," just based on my expectation we would carry extra pilots through SOC, then rationalize the network, then the timing worked out perfectly with the expiration of many of our furlough protections in the JPWA, for example:
Bar;
I agree with what you say and the timing of it all. I also see a few other things occurring at the same time that may limit or negate the need to pink slips at the mainline level.
See stars align and dots are starting to connect for me.
Look at the DCI contracts on the SEC website. Look at the timing of them, and certain reset dates et al. Look at the economy, and a few key factors related to international uptick, and all of them are a few months before or after Dec 2010.

I agree that we as a union have given DAL management enough 76 seat jets that they would park the DC-9 fleet tomorrow and have the jets to replace them with out one jet being bought. It sucks, and is what it is. What we need to do from here, is make sure that is all we give, no matter how much pain comes to bear.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:50 AM   #13250  
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ACL:

Hope you are right and H1N1 is N0TH1N6. I'm pretty sure Pandemic is "an event beyond the Company's control" although a 10 minute wipe down of the seats and tray tables with disinfectant would help ease many passenger's concerns.

Sent you a E-Mail on some staffing changes that might signal what is happening at DCI. Watching Pinnacle stock shoot up 250% while Comair managers are "deciding to spend more time with their families" helps connect the dots on LGA flying.

You are right about Bedford and as we wrote back when these deals triggered, it was a defensive play to diversify and protect revenue streams.
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