Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-12-2013, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
We sell a commodity at Delta. Its not the same commodity sold at UPS or Fedex as our primary business. Southwest does sell the same commodity and in 2012 their average pilot made 157,000 dollars. The average pilot at Delta made 158,000 and change. The average Delta pilot received a pension benefit package worth 51,000 dollars. The average SouthWest pilots package was 27,466. The average Delta pilot flew 52 block hours a month in 2012 at SW it was 64.5. Total block hour costs at Delta which is the one number wallstreet, management and the NMB really care about was 941 dollars an hour. SW was at 698 dollars an hour. To make that a really honest comparison because of the fleet mix Delta's narrowbody cost was 911 per hour verses 692 at SW.
To look at the 2013 numbers pilot compensation will be up another 10.8 percent which should put the average Delta pilot around 174,000 a year with no increase at SW. 2014 should bump the average Delta pilot to just under 180K a year and a additional 1 percent into the retirement package with no increase at SW.
All and all a remarkable comeback from a company that was bankrupt in 2005. When you go before the NMB the above numbers are what will be in play. I know you read the powerpoint presentation from the head of the NMB when she flew to Atlanta to lay out the ground rule for our contract negotiations to the MEC. She made it very clear that any release would be contingent on our proposals being reasonable and the definition of reasonable would be our standing amongst the other passenger airlines.
To look at the 2013 numbers pilot compensation will be up another 10.8 percent which should put the average Delta pilot around 174,000 a year with no increase at SW. 2014 should bump the average Delta pilot to just under 180K a year and a additional 1 percent into the retirement package with no increase at SW.
All and all a remarkable comeback from a company that was bankrupt in 2005. When you go before the NMB the above numbers are what will be in play. I know you read the powerpoint presentation from the head of the NMB when she flew to Atlanta to lay out the ground rule for our contract negotiations to the MEC. She made it very clear that any release would be contingent on our proposals being reasonable and the definition of reasonable would be our standing amongst the other passenger airlines.
Carl
12-12-2013, 01:55 AM
The Brown Dot +1
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Originally Posted by newKnow
I think next month is going to be pretty interesting for reserves and block holders.
12-12-2013, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
There hasn't been any union response to that, has there?
The company sure is engaging with a bit less constructiveness these days it seems.
The company sure is engaging with a bit less constructiveness these days it seems.
12-12-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by flyallnite
It's the airtrain, which is free to Federal Station, which is basically on airport. A lot of hotel vans pick up there, and it's the rental car drop. It's probably no worse than waiting 30 minutes at the horseshoe for Golden touch. The walk to the pick up for the doubletree van was brutal, this one at least you can just go to the train and ride. This is probably not as bad as it sounds, especially for a better hotel.
Additionally, I've never seen crews in uniform have to ride the train to federal circle. The hilton picks up at the terminal for AA and I think jetBlue is there now also.
12-12-2013, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
I've ridden the airtrain a good bit. On a good day it is a pain in the butt to get to federal circle and once you get there THEN your wait for the hotel van begins. If they are single tracking then you will have to wait a good bit longer and know the system well enough to switch trains at terminal 8 to get to federal circle.
Additionally, I've never seen crews in uniform have to ride the train to federal circle. The hilton picks up at the terminal for AA and I think jetBlue is there now also.
Additionally, I've never seen crews in uniform have to ride the train to federal circle. The hilton picks up at the terminal for AA and I think jetBlue is there now also.
12-12-2013, 03:31 AM
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Sailingfun wrote " The average Delta pilot flew 52 block hours a month in 2012 at SW it was 64.5".
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
12-12-2013, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dalad
I think this was driven by the Port Authority, as in making all hotel vans pick up at Federal Circle. I know it sucks.
12-12-2013, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by orvil
Sailingfun wrote " The average Delta pilot flew 52 block hours a month in 2012 at SW it was 64.5".
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
It doesn't count credit time, vacation time, sick leave, training, or green slip pay, all of which are built into the 87 number.
If the typical guy has 5 hrs of credit a month, 120 hours of sick leave annually, 100 hours of vacation time annually, 10 hours of CQ annually and 80 hours of initial training every few years, that adds up to 25+ hours/month on average. Throw in a couple of green slips per year, and you're there.
12-12-2013, 03:47 AM
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Posts: 19,259
Originally Posted by orvil
Sailingfun wrote " The average Delta pilot flew 52 block hours a month in 2012 at SW it was 64.5".
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
Something does not add up. This is not bashing the pay of our MEC guys, but their pay is based on the average line pilot flying 87 hours. This number comes from the company. Where does the 52 hours come from? With our reserves down to 15% in most categories i find it hard to believe their inclusion would lower the block hours to 52.
By the way, our productivity is the worst in the industry. That fact however in contract negotiations needs to be disputed and clarified when dealing with the NMB and others. Part of that is contractual. We are overall at or near the top in workrules. Another part however is poor planning by management. In 2005 management stated loudly and often that we had to be down to 3 aircraft types to reduce inefficiency or Delta could not survive. Fast forward to today after a merger with a airline with only 1 like aircraft type and a sudden whim to buy every bastard airframe available in the world and new aircraft orders split Boeing and Airbus and I am going to go out on a limb and say they have abandoned the fleet simplification concept.
Last edited by sailingfun; 12-12-2013 at 04:00 AM.
12-12-2013, 03:52 AM
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I know I have read that some long 2 pilot domestic transcon turns are not possible under part 117 due to departure times, etc., but what if they were augmented? I appears a 3 man crew could fly up to 13 hours if they took off in the correct duty window. I know airlines do this for long Latin America turns, why not domestically?
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