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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Old 02-21-2022, 08:12 AM
  #201621  
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Originally Posted by notEnuf View Post
I doubt the RLA changes or jurisdiction changes anytime soon. This is why we must take action to implement change within the PWA. No other business relationship codified by an agreement takes advantage of a single party by locking them into an agreement with no recourse for restitution. You are being force to perform labor today that was valued in 2016 and as valued must continue at 2020 levels in perpetuity. Indentured servitude. Change my mind. This requires PWA action. I have never advocated for legislative action because it’s futile. We need to take care of our own problem. CPI makes sense, equal % as other employees, “me too” for industry standard… all of them. Shifting and cherry picking metrics like SCOPE each cycle is not the solution.

If ever there was a contract to implement this, it’s now. Everyone sees a need as a result of inflation so the motivation is there The newer generation is coming into the industry questioning the inertia of tradition. The company is facing a real need for increased labor and a PWA that attracts candidates. The time is now.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e...atorclause.asp
I'm 100 percent with you. We are the only party that really loses by endlessly kicking the contract can down the road. A built in cost of living increase based on CPI is a no brainer in my opinion.
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Old 02-21-2022, 08:49 AM
  #201622  
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Not trying to start a fight, or change any ideas that might come out of you guys brainstorming, but theres a couple things to keep in mind youre negotiating against.

For one, we as pilots arent negotiating against other pilot groups and we cant sell our services collectively to United. We dont get the kind of business relationship with management the guys who sell us fuel get. We won't either. They are the employer, we are the employee. I hate to offer this up because it will cause some other conversations, but the only way to fix that relationship with management is to have one union, one seniority list, across all unions. Probably wildly unpopular but i dont like bringing up problems without a starting place for a solution (even if unrealistic).
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Old 02-21-2022, 08:59 AM
  #201623  
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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown View Post
Not trying to start a fight, or change any ideas that might come out of you guys brainstorming, but theres a couple things to keep in mind youre negotiating against.

For one, we as pilots arent negotiating against other pilot groups and we cant sell our services collectively to United. We dont get the kind of business relationship with management the guys who sell us fuel get. We won't either. They are the employer, we are the employee. I hate to offer this up because it will cause some other conversations, but the only way to fix that relationship with management is to have one union, one seniority list, across all unions. Probably wildly unpopular but i dont like bringing up problems without a starting place for a solution (even if unrealistic).
This is the mind set I'm trying to shift. You have a lifetime contract, but you only get to adjust your pay every 4-6+ years. It's actually a many lifetimes contract but will apply for your entire career and everyone else's, now and in the future without end. I don't care that we can't sell our services elsewhere. This is exactly the justification for the change and my reason for determining a change is necessary.

You (1)can't realistically market your services once you are locked into your employer by seniority, and you (2)can't withdraw your service when the terms become amendable, and you (3)must work for existing wages for an undefined future period.

Again, (perpetual) indentured servitude.

Last edited by notEnuf; 02-21-2022 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 02-21-2022, 09:05 AM
  #201624  
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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown View Post
Not trying to start a fight, or change any ideas that might come out of you guys brainstorming, but theres a couple things to keep in mind youre negotiating against.

For one, we as pilots arent negotiating against other pilot groups and we cant sell our services collectively to United. We dont get the kind of business relationship with management the guys who sell us fuel get. We won't either. They are the employer, we are the employee. I hate to offer this up because it will cause some other conversations, but the only way to fix that relationship with management is to have one union, one seniority list, across all unions. Probably wildly unpopular but i dont like bringing up problems without a starting place for a solution (even if unrealistic).
Absolutely not. I want ZERO affiliation with United, and I’m sure they’re good peeps and their ALPA has strengths we could utilize. That being said, United is ran by a bunch of “The Zoo” REJECTS, starting with Kirby.

Scott wouldn’t know how to run a lemonade stand for profit, and don’t even get me started with AA”G” (if they ever dump APA)
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Old 02-21-2022, 09:42 AM
  #201625  
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3 new Hawaiian routes announced today. OGG-HNL will be interesting to operate nonstop.
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Old 02-21-2022, 10:52 AM
  #201626  
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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown View Post
...the only way to fix that relationship with management is to have one union, one seniority list, across all unions.
Non starter. Not only would you never come remotely close to 50%+1 voting for that, I don't think it would even be legal. If it somehow did happen, the already low chance of being released to a 30 day cooling off period would drop to precisely 0.00% and the company would have unilateral leverage for life.

Very bad idea.
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Old 02-21-2022, 11:40 AM
  #201627  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
3 new Hawaiian routes announced today. OGG-HNL will be interesting to operate nonstop.
I see DTW/JFK-HNL and ATL-OGG. Where did you see OGG-HNL?
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Old 02-21-2022, 12:33 PM
  #201628  
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Originally Posted by 172skychicken View Post
I see DTW/JFK-HNL and ATL-OGG. Where did you see OGG-HNL?
Sorry, I meant OGG to ATL. I suspect however there will be more than a few tech stops in HNL for fuel.
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Old 02-21-2022, 12:43 PM
  #201629  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Sorry, I meant OGG to ATL. I suspect however there will be more than a few tech stops in HNL for fuel.
Which plane is going to gonna be doing these new routes?
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Old 02-21-2022, 12:48 PM
  #201630  
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Originally Posted by Myfingershurt View Post
Which plane is going to gonna be doing these new routes?
the 767-300 I think. That’s just what I recall from press release. I haven’t flown it, no idea if it can do it
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