DAL4EVER

My firsthand experience following 9/11 was that the company indicated a few days afterwards that they would furlough. They had to give 30 days notice and I got my call around Sept. 28 from the MCO Chief Pilot that I would be furloughed. He was a busy guy during that time period. There were no leaves offered prior to the first furloughs. That said, who knows how it would shake out the next time. Barring any 9/11 type event, the company would know months before the actual furlough hit so it is conceivable that they could offer leaves or early retirement at first. That's basically what they're doing now with the other employees.

buzzpat

Unfortunately, in the aftermath of 9/11, it was quick and dirty. I was one of the first 400 to go. We were notified about 30 days in advance. I remember walking off the jet from my last rotation, being met by a rep from the CPO, and being asked for my ID. Still in uniform and walking the "walk of shame" to catch the bus to the parking lot. It was not a good time.

Still, I came back, in spite of other lucrative options. I really like flying for Delta and I love the guys/girls I fly with. The way DALPA handled those of us who were furloughed was exemplary.

acl65pilot

It will be 255 before we know it. I do not trust anything. There is a different mix here at DAL know. The wind direction has changed. Our MEC better realize this. All we ask is that they represent the interests and desires of the whole group.

Bucking Bar

Yes. Do you want me to name, names? I'd prefer to not make this that personal. But in general, we bought management's "bargaining credits" for relaxed scope in concessionary bargaining. Look at negotiator's notepads some time around LOA 49 & 51.I've been a pretty good student. PM me and I will send you the same DOT Form 41 data that ALPA's E & FA department uses.Then explain why we are moving to divest Compass's pilots from our MEC? I don't want to make this personal by naming names on the MEC but we are responsible for what is going on now and now is what matters.Negotiating power comes from unity. The more flying performed by Delta pilots, the more power we have. Our outsourcing undermines our bargaining power and results in a long term negative trend.I am very familiar with the 105 seat BAE 146 ASA flew. You are absolutely correct about Ron Allen's threat, Comair was looking at DC9's and ASA at 737's.

I'm glad to read your opinion "scope the flying and let management...." but you contradict yourself with your economic argument that Delta pilots can not perform the flying without forcing Delta out of the marketplace. Consider that DCI's costs include:

• Redundant management operations
• The purchase of several generations of 20 to 30 million dollar airplanes, some of which flew for less than eight years
• Less than optimal scheduling and resource utilization
• Legal expenses of defending injunctive actions (and settling them)
• A $660,000,000.00 strike (at a cost of $330,000 per pilot)
• Around $3,075,000,000.00 in acquisition costs (3.5 less the ASA sale)
• Redundant Certificate compliance, documentation, and training
• The profits of two of the most profitable airlines on the planet
• loss of operational control (reference Mesa moving to CVG and Comair to JFK to since Delta can't cnx a Mesa flight)
• ... and allegedly "bargaining credits"

You are right, I can't explain the math on that. The only explanation is the offloading of Capital Expenditures on fleet renewal, the destruction of longevity and the crippling of ALPA's bargaining power going forward.

It is my opinion that pilots do not buy airplanes. A union's role is to remove the question of who flies them. Certainly there is room for win / win negotiations and Compass is one of those opportunities. Can you explain why we are going the opposite direction? If we are trying to make Compass "sale-able" how does that benefit us?

slowplay

The current number of 76 seaters allowed is 153, and if there are any furloughs that number drops to 127. 255 is the total number of 70 or greater seat airframes allowed. The only way to get to 255 76 seaters is a contractual change or mainline growth. That 255 number came from what was allowed under the pre-merger DAL and NWA scope. We're still about 30 70 seat airplanes under that cap.

It's good that a guy with so many management contacts now speaks for the group... Weren't you ASA management before? Seems strange that you holler about scope when that's how you built your qualifications and contacts to get your Delta job.

Maybe you and whoever else makes up "we" can get our scope changed on your own with your "contacts". Of course, those guys you left behind at ASA may call you a ladder puller Or maybe "we" will realize that there is a contract that spells all this out, and that contract is amendable in 2012.

slowplay

How about reviewing the history about how that number came to be....but that would require you to demonstrate some intellectual honesty.

Hint: How many 76 seat jets did NWA bring with them through the merger?

Hint: How many mainline aircraft were required when the number was 30?

Or should we not trust a word you say?

acl65pilot

Funny thing is that most of my contacts at DAL were fostered well outside the normal business channels of the DCI relationship. Trust me when I say that they are well aware of the issues we have with scope. Difference is that it will not effect their paycheck.

Bucking Bar

I've asked three times about going out on long term leave since the NWA merger was announced. The answers were "no, we need you to fly the ER out of NYC, and finally, NO!" Crew Planning is not looking into the future and seeing leaves, or furloughs. The news is "no news."

• Reinstatements would be part of a future bid. There will be no reinstatements outside of a normal Advance Entitlement bid.
• Displacements are not anticipated.

They are right on profile for what they need for the near future.

ACL has mentioned a small bid prior to SOC, then a big big afterwards. I bet he is right. The question for people like me who are getting displaced by a slim margin, should we reinstate to the 767 (or 737) and risk getting immediately displaced again, or hang out and wait for something like the DC9 / A320 to come to Atlanta, or run off and join an aid group to some equatorial island paradise? (best way to get your cash out of the US tax free, BTW)

Bucking Bar

standby ....

acl65pilot

I do not mind people questioning me, but I think that most fail to realize something. I am a pilot first. As most of the people in flt ops management are. See, what has happened it DAL is in my mind a travesty. I know the money guys do everything in their power to keep the pilots as far away from it as possible. I see that as a mistake. It has been stated for quite sometime, and many times by me, that the airlines that are great have a pilot with his hands on or very close to the helm. This is in my estimation the single reason that we are an industry are where we are today. I do not discredit the genius of our financial boys, but I think that keeping individuals with superior operational knowledge out of the big game as a huge mistake. Back when airlines were great who ran em? Not people like Lorenzo!
I have worked for and will continue to work towards pilots being part of the Top of the management team. It solves many issues. I am not talking about VP of Ops. I am talking about the true positions of leadership.
As a pilot I can say that it is easy to be taught the ways of creative financing et al, it is much harder to teach a finance guys the intricacies of operations.
(FWIW, IMHO RA has good operational knowledge, he is the best CEO I have seen with that skill)
Lets hope not. Of course if I was management I would take anything that the MEC was willing to give me. There is a possibility of a bigger game being payed here, but IMHO we are going to get burned playing it.