Nosmo King

Denny,

I was referring to the over 60 crowd, the 30 Jun/15 July deadline is not a major player if you are already eligible to retire and collect a full pension. Many of those guys might stick around and see what the flying looks like and then have the option of bailing out if they don't like the rotation construction. The MSP base is especially interesting because some of the captains have a full DB from NW as well as an annuity, add-on and a rollup from pre-merger Republic. I call them the "I'll fly until I get bored" crowd.

Ferd149

Bingo!!

I keep trying to tell all my southie LAX ER As that they really DO care about the red/green wars and I'm not just spinning bedtime stories. Until all those guys (especially the greens - and I say that with love depending on the green guy) are gone, so much of what goes no NOW is effected by that '86 mess.

BigGuns

NO BACKFILLS TO 777, 767, & 7ER makes it even to slightly neg for the pilot group...

BigGuns

The note in the memo said plan on md90 positions in the next AE. That may generate a small need, unless more capacity comes out of the system...

tsquare

That is what is called big shiny jet syndrome.

Nosmo King

It also shaped the attitude of the mid 80s hire pre-merger reds. Disclosure: I was hired post merger.

First they got merged with REP using DOH and being on the losing end of that part, but they had a 20 year fence and non-expiring recall rights. REP pilots came into the red book pension without bringing any money because they were smart enough to terminate their old pension, buy an annuity (or annuities for some) and then negotiate their stake in the merged pension. REP pilots were also paid a lower hourly rate for a period after the merger and were denied bids to narrow body aircraft that new hires were allowed to bid.

Then the fences ended and the slow flush began by virtue of base closures, retiring airframes and "replacement aircraft", some of the mid 80 hires were forever frozen out of widebody captain due to DOH SLI but some still had non-expiring recall rights if they had been on it previously.

Then Chapter 11, OMG management is using our pension as a weapon against us to get concessions and the damn post merger guys control the MEC and screwed us again with DC targeting.

Then the DAL merger, they didnt get DOH again on the losing side, got a 5 year fence on a retiring aircraft, an aircraft that won't be delivered until 2020 and the 747-400 but didn't get it on the A330 and then had their recall rights period reduced from forever to 6 months and OMG I lost 3 years of seniority again.

And here we are with lawsuits against ALPA and a vocal DPA movement.

You can pretty much swap negatives and positives in that synopsis if you are a green book guy.

I am sure someone can find parallels in pre merger DAL and Western.

Wasatch Phantom

FTB,

My "gut" feeling is the initial A-320 bid awards will be fairly junior, and that's typical. The reason is there are no bid packages to evaluate what the trips are, and what one's seniority could hold in terms of trips, days off, etc. So even though there will be a bunch considering the category, many will hold off until they have a better picture of what their individual quality of life would be like.

As far as five day trips...

I'm a south guy flying the A-320 in SLC. I live in base but I prefer the five day trips because it allows me to create a decent block of days-off every month. When the category first started in SLC there was a bunch of *itching (by DAL-S pilots) about how there were so many five day trips and so on... The result is many more three day trips, and more four day trips as well (but fewer five day trips).

For many folks the five-days are desirable.

forgot to bid

Delta Air Lines Inc. will have to repay $175 million in loans tied to a long-ago bailout of Northwest Airlines because it is closing training centers for pilots and flight attendants in Minnesota, where Northwest was based.

Ferd149

What a great summery. I think I'm going to print that out as my "talking points/lesson plan"

I wonder what the size differential is between the remainder of the red/greens and the pmWestern guys is.

History always effects the present. Guys who chose to think past mergers don't matter don't understand what is happening to them.

Ferd

kamsman

What is the earliest conversion date of this AE? I'm wondering for freeze purposes..thanks