Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-29-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
I don't think it's a swapboard problem. It's a pilot to pilot, swap with friends problem. Ideally it's a great tool to use when you need it. I just swapped basically the same trip with a guy only it leaves a day earlier. After the bids came out I found out I needed to try and get back a day earlier. I emailed the guy and he was willing to do the swap. The problem is the trip parking abuse. Legal but not ethical.
Denny
Denny
05-29-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzpat
Hey Denny, or somebody, I really don't understand the trip parking thing. How does it benefit the senior guy if he's swapping trips with a junior buddy?
05-29-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
Second that what exactly is "Trip Parking" ?
Say for instance I'm at ALV+12 (with max pickup being ALV+15). I see a trip in open time that I really want to fly, but it is 15 hours. I cannot pick that trip up because it would cause me to exceed max pickup.
The key to trip parking is the swap board is not limited by max pickup. Therefore, I call a friend, who happens to have a low time line for the month, and has those days off. He Whiteslips the trip, and then "swaps" it to me for nothing in return. I just circumvented the intent of the max pickup, but technically did not break any rules of the contract.
Alot of guys have a problem with this. I see it as a problem, but don't blame anyone for working the current system to their advantage. It's my same view of the +60 geezers. I don't like it, but don't blame them personally for taking advantage of the rules that are currently in place.
That being said, I think it needs to be changed so trip parking can't happen. It reduces staffing requirements and allows guys to overwork thus helping the company run thin.
A better solution is to get our pay and workrules up so guys don't have to ***** for a decent paycheck.
05-29-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzpat
Hey Denny, or somebody, I really don't understand the trip parking thing. How does it benefit the senior guy if he's swapping trips with a junior buddy?
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Second that what exactly is "Trip Parking" ?
- you park a trip on my line
- white slip a trip that would normally put you above the ALV limits
- after you're awarded the white slip, take your trip back off my line
bingo bango........over the white slip limit
Full disclosure, I've never done it but I did have a buddy that wanted to/explain it to me.
Ferd <-----commuting to high time temps the devil and doesn't do it
Last edited by Ferd149; 05-29-2011 at 05:11 PM.
05-29-2011, 04:08 PM
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I wouldn't want to see the swap board go away, nor am I particularly upset that there isn't a ALV limit on it.
After all, I am doing less, so if someone else wants to do more, then more power to them.
BUT, I do see the issue with trip parking. How about a rule that says if you pick something up from the open board via WS, the only way you can get rid of it is to PD or APD....you can't swap it.
Nu
After all, I am doing less, so if someone else wants to do more, then more power to them.
BUT, I do see the issue with trip parking. How about a rule that says if you pick something up from the open board via WS, the only way you can get rid of it is to PD or APD....you can't swap it.
Nu
05-29-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
BB, I agree, and when DAL bought CA and ASA I was saying then, we need to get them onto our list, ASAP! I was told it was their own MEC's who said, "Date of Hire or NFW!" Well, nobody in the airline world has EVER gotten date of hire in a merger, Not Western, Not Pan Am, not NWA.
Carl
05-29-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
As a Junior guy, I'll come out and say I disagree with Hockeypilot's position.
I don't think it is financially feasible to offer a higher pay raise to junior pilots in contrast to senior ones.
As a Junior guy, I won't patronize and preach about how much I've sacrificed and given up under the current contract. Truth is, I wouldn't have a job or DAL seniority number if it wasn't for the sacrifices senior pilots ahead of me made to keep this company in business. I try and keep myself grounded with that fact whenever I talk about our contract and representation.
My statement about pilots being our own worst enemies is an ongoing truth, and I agree with all of your number points. We pretend to take an unbiased approach when discussing contractual changes improvements, but our actions have been anything but this.
I'm not saying that I am willing to give away scope and take a pay cut to appease our senior pilots, but I do feel our senior pilots are entitled to a little more given the sacrifices they have made over the past ten years.
I do think we as a group need to move forward together as a whole, and not pit one side against the other regardless of the issue.
I don't think it is financially feasible to offer a higher pay raise to junior pilots in contrast to senior ones.
As a Junior guy, I won't patronize and preach about how much I've sacrificed and given up under the current contract. Truth is, I wouldn't have a job or DAL seniority number if it wasn't for the sacrifices senior pilots ahead of me made to keep this company in business. I try and keep myself grounded with that fact whenever I talk about our contract and representation.
My statement about pilots being our own worst enemies is an ongoing truth, and I agree with all of your number points. We pretend to take an unbiased approach when discussing contractual changes improvements, but our actions have been anything but this.
I'm not saying that I am willing to give away scope and take a pay cut to appease our senior pilots, but I do feel our senior pilots are entitled to a little more given the sacrifices they have made over the past ten years.
I do think we as a group need to move forward together as a whole, and not pit one side against the other regardless of the issue.
We made those decisions (yes they turned out to be stupid) because management and ALPA warned us that without RJ's feeding the hubs, our airlines would die. Everyone would have been hurt then, including current junior people who wouldn't have had a Delta or NWA to hire on with.
Again, those decisions proved to be wrong by us...but it was done through fear of liquidation, not of a desire to line our pockets. It is especially painful now to learn that ALPA lawyers knew of the 1974 precendent that would prevent us from ever striking over Scope if our giveaways later proved to be a mistake...and kept this knowledge from our local union leaders and the membership who voted to give it up.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Carl
05-29-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Let ME be clear. What you are proposing is that junior pilots get a 50% payraise in the next contract, and senior pilots get a 20% raise. Or whatever the numbers turn out to be. And that's your definition of what a "real union" would do, huh?
And let me guess, you just happen to be junior...
Seriously, I find it disappointing that the only people who seem to argue strongly for a position, are those who would benefit directly from it, all the while claiming a morally superior position and rationalizing it is the best for the pilot group as a whole. Some examples:
1. Old guys arguing that retirement dollars are the most important.
2. Junior guys arguing that scope is the most important.
3. Junior guys arguing we need to level payrates (see above).
4. Senior pilots in smaller equipment arguing for seniority based (rather than equipment based) pay.
5. All pilots in a smaller aircraft (MD88 and/or 767) asking for pay "banding" that would bring their pay up more than their peers (73N and 330/777 respectively).
6. Regional guys arguing for a merger just so they can get a DAL seniority number without an interview.
7. Bald guys arguing to keep the hat.
And the list goes on and on...
And let me guess, you just happen to be junior...
Seriously, I find it disappointing that the only people who seem to argue strongly for a position, are those who would benefit directly from it, all the while claiming a morally superior position and rationalizing it is the best for the pilot group as a whole. Some examples:
1. Old guys arguing that retirement dollars are the most important.
2. Junior guys arguing that scope is the most important.
3. Junior guys arguing we need to level payrates (see above).
4. Senior pilots in smaller equipment arguing for seniority based (rather than equipment based) pay.
5. All pilots in a smaller aircraft (MD88 and/or 767) asking for pay "banding" that would bring their pay up more than their peers (73N and 330/777 respectively).
6. Regional guys arguing for a merger just so they can get a DAL seniority number without an interview.
7. Bald guys arguing to keep the hat.
And the list goes on and on...
Carl
05-29-2011, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Defending the MD88 is like asking a feminist "what did Maria Shriver do to Arnold to chase him into the arms of the maid?"
Carl
05-29-2011, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NuGuy
I wouldn't want to see the swap board go away, nor am I particularly upset that there isn't a ALV limit on it.
After all, I am doing less, so if someone else wants to do more, then more power to them.
BUT, I do see the issue with trip parking. How about a rule that says if you pick something up from the open board via WS, the only way you can get rid of it is to PD or APD....you can't swap it.
Nu
After all, I am doing less, so if someone else wants to do more, then more power to them.
BUT, I do see the issue with trip parking. How about a rule that says if you pick something up from the open board via WS, the only way you can get rid of it is to PD or APD....you can't swap it.
Nu
Easy fix, doesn't hurt anybody and a way out for those times when...
A drop is a drop, a pickup is a pickup...no going back.
It's not like you can redo your AE/DP bid if you mess it up.
Considering the effects of a bidding mistake on an entitlement bid could last months to years, that seems like a small price to pay.
BTW: Airbus oder before yearend, Boeing won't bin on fleet RFP.
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 05-29-2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Punk-too-ation
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