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Old 10-06-2014, 05:55 PM
  #5661  
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy View Post
That and it is very easy to verify everything in their background vs. having to get records from numerous previous employers and flight schools. It takes one call to basically know everything about a mil guy.
Yeah that's a major plus. I'm a civilian with part 61 flight training, some not even at official schools. I feel that my initial flight training quality was absolutely top notch but no way to officially verify anything. I wish I would have known it mattered back then.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:14 PM
  #5662  
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Originally Posted by SVA402 View Post
Yeah that's a major plus. I'm a civilian with part 61 flight training, some not even at official schools. I feel that my initial flight training quality was absolutely top notch but no way to officially verify anything. I wish I would have known it mattered back then.
They have been in the hiring biz a long time, they have hired all stripes of aviator. If you can get past the computer, the rest can be sorted out. Best of luck.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:45 PM
  #5663  
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Originally Posted by pb4ufly View Post
- increase hiring from 85/mo to 115/mo through April 2015
- almost 1000 to start training in CY14
WOW that's really good news. If they hire 1000 this year out of the 8,000 apps they have that puts them around 12.5% to get the job and probably the top 15% were invited to the interview.

It would be interesting to know of the 8,000 apps they have, how many of those guys have been hired by American, United or Southwest? The real number hired could be as high as 30% of the top guys hired this year. Who knows.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:33 PM
  #5664  
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Originally Posted by Flycameron View Post
Why is it, that I hear the military guys struggle with training more than a 121 guys does? My buddy that just went through said it was the military guys that had a hard time and in fact delta's operations were practically identical to that of the regional airline he came from. I could definitely see the military guys showing up prepared and looking sharp for an interview so that makes sense.
Your average 121 OTS applicant has probably basically done the job he's walking in to for years if not decades, no? Maybe it's been in smaller equipment (or larger), maybe for poorer compensation, but all in all, that guy or gal just keeps on keeping on, no?

Your average F-16 retiree may not have touched a flap lever in two decades. He (or she) may never have shot a CAT II or CAT III approach, or used an autopilot that does anything more than maintain heading and altitude. He may never have de-iced, worked with a flight attendant, seen ACARS, programed an FMS, made a cabin announcement, rolled backwards in an airplane?!?, or crossed the pond. It could be that he hasn't referenced a checklist (for other than emergency procedures), verbally briefed an approach, or transferred aircraft control to someone else for years. It doesn't surprise me in the least that mil pilots might struggle during their initial training. In fact, if these pilots can be as successful as they are, it almost makes you wonder if the former 121 pilots' training is not a bit of overkill?

So why EVER choose to interview the latter over the former? My guess is because Delta isn't hiring people to be first-year probationary first officers, or to water the eyes of some instructor on the first full motion sim event. They are hiring future captains who will have several years to learn the intricacies of part 121 under the tutelage of highly experienced captains before they themselves become much LESS experienced captains (than their predecessors) flying with MUCH less experienced first officers than those now in so many right seats. And 99% of the time, the job really is pretty easy…but when it's hard, experiences other than "more 121 time" might just be worth having. It's notable that Sully came to the 121 world from an F-4 background, and things turned out pretty well on the Potomac.

That notional F-16 pilot started his (or her) career, and continued progressing in it, by out-performing most if not all of his peers…many of whom were themselves well above average pilots and leaders. And because many of them are literally battle-tested and have shown themselves to be competent under pressure while killing bad people or saving good ones. It's not unlikely that he's been roused out of a deep sleep to be airborne 5 minutes later, intercepting a lost doctor in his Bonanza at night while flying tired on night vision goggles, or maybe dropping bombs in close proximity to friendly forces. He's certainly been responsible for the careers and possibly lives of several people…if not dozens, or hundreds, or thousands under his command or influence. He may have delivered the worst news possible to family members of those for whom he was responsible - subordinates who gave the ultimate sacrifice. He might have managed to keep his household functional and maybe even happy between and during multiple 6-, 12- or 24-month overseas deployments. He's probably worked at least 6 months (if not 36) doing some non-flying job for which he was never actually trained and may not have enjoyed for one second, and it's likely he did so rather well. He's probably made difficult and life-altering decisions affecting people he cared for, and/or people he may never have met, with only limited and conflicting background information.

Perhaps military pilots in each branch and in each platform have (on AVERAGE, of course) just been exposed to, and overcame, enough hurdles and challenges that the lack of actual 121 time isn't a concern to the Delta hiring team. It could be for United, who seems to be hiring fewer all-military applicants.

I'd certainly be interested to hear what active pilots with Delta think about the performance of Mil vs Civ by the time these pilots reach Captain at a major. My hunch (I'm ready to stand corrected) is that there just isn't a difference beyond the first year of employment.

Last edited by TED74; 10-06-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:04 PM
  #5665  
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
Apparently no true OTS hires have had any training failures. Word on the street is all training failures have been Compass flows or Endeavor SSP new hires
100% not true…..people from all walks(Mil/Civ/Flows/SSP) have busted Esv's, PV's, MVs, and LOE's. They WILL work with you if you need it and have a good attitude.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:30 PM
  #5666  
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Originally Posted by TED74 View Post
I'd certainly be interested to hear what active pilots with Delta think about the performance of Mil vs Civ by the time these pilots reach Captain at a major. My hunch (I'm ready to stand corrected) is that there just isn't a difference beyond the first year of employment.
It's been my overwhelming experience that nobody cares what you did before Delta. 99%+ of our guys are outstanding to work with as people and professional pilots. Your hunch is dead on.

Btw, my geography is pretty bad but I don't think Sully landed on the Potomac
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:12 AM
  #5667  
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Originally Posted by SVA402 View Post
Yeah that's a major plus. I'm a civilian with part 61 flight training, some not even at official schools. I feel that my initial flight training quality was absolutely top notch but no way to officially verify anything. I wish I would have known it mattered back then.
Delta will look hard at your logbooks when you interview. They will be able to get a good idea of your training and how you did. If you took 65 hours to get a private they may ask why. If you had far more instrument training they may ask why. If you finished everything near the minimum requirements they will see that.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:15 AM
  #5668  
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge View Post
Btw, my geography is pretty bad but I don't think Sully landed on the Potomac
Correct. That would be George Washington.

You can fly a 4-day trip without knowing your colleague's background. (Well, by day 3 you should be able to discern AF vs Navy.)

Last edited by GogglesPisano; 10-07-2014 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:24 AM
  #5669  
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge View Post
It's been my overwhelming experience that nobody cares what you did before Delta. 99%+ of our guys are outstanding to work with as people and professional pilots. Your hunch is dead on.

Btw, my geography is pretty bad but I don't think Sully landed on the Potomac
Are you sure? I see him talking in DC often!
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:26 AM
  #5670  
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Originally Posted by TED74 View Post
Your average 121 OTS applicant has probably basically done the job he's walking in to for years if not decades, no? Maybe it's been in smaller equipment (or larger), maybe for poorer compensation, but all in all, that guy or gal just keeps on keeping on, no?

Your average F-16 retiree may not have touched a flap lever in two decades. He (or she) may never have shot a CAT II or CAT III approach, or used an autopilot that does anything more than maintain heading and altitude. He may never have de-iced, worked with a flight attendant, seen ACARS, programed an FMS, made a cabin announcement, rolled backwards in an airplane?!?, or crossed the pond. It could be that he hasn't referenced a checklist (for other than emergency procedures), verbally briefed an approach, or transferred aircraft control to someone else for years. It doesn't surprise me in the least that mil pilots might struggle during their initial training. In fact, if these pilots can be as successful as they are, it almost makes you wonder if the former 121 pilots' training is not a bit of overkill?

So why EVER choose to interview the latter over the former? My guess is because Delta isn't hiring people to be first-year probationary first officers, or to water the eyes of some instructor on the first full motion sim event. They are hiring future captains who will have several years to learn the intricacies of part 121 under the tutelage of highly experienced captains before they themselves become much LESS experienced captains (than their predecessors) flying with MUCH less experienced first officers than those now in so many right seats. And 99% of the time, the job really is pretty easy…but when it's hard, experiences other than "more 121 time" might just be worth having. It's notable that Sully came to the 121 world from an F-4 background, and things turned out pretty well on the Potomac.

That notional F-16 pilot started his (or her) career, and continued progressing in it, by out-performing most if not all of his peers…many of whom were themselves well above average pilots and leaders. And because many of them are literally battle-tested and have shown themselves to be competent under pressure while killing bad people or saving good ones. It's not unlikely that he's been roused out of a deep sleep to be airborne 5 minutes later, intercepting a lost doctor in his Bonanza at night while flying tired on night vision goggles, or maybe dropping bombs in close proximity to friendly forces. He's certainly been responsible for the careers and possibly lives of several people…if not dozens, or hundreds, or thousands under his command or influence. He may have delivered the worst news possible to family members of those for whom he was responsible - subordinates who gave the ultimate sacrifice. He might have managed to keep his household functional and maybe even happy between and during multiple 6-, 12- or 24-month overseas deployments. He's probably worked at least 6 months (if not 36) doing some non-flying job for which he was never actually trained and may not have enjoyed for one second, and it's likely he did so rather well. He's probably made difficult and life-altering decisions affecting people he cared for, and/or people he may never have met, with only limited and conflicting background information.

Perhaps military pilots in each branch and in each platform have (on AVERAGE, of course) just been exposed to, and overcame, enough hurdles and challenges that the lack of actual 121 time isn't a concern to the Delta hiring team. It could be for United, who seems to be hiring fewer all-military applicants.

I'd certainly be interested to hear what active pilots with Delta think about the performance of Mil vs Civ by the time these pilots reach Captain at a major. My hunch (I'm ready to stand corrected) is that there just isn't a difference beyond the first year of employment.


Great Post! 15 years at DAL and with few exceptions you can not tell the difference. Mostly solid dudes from both groups.

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