Details on Delta TA
07-27-2014, 07:37 AM
#111
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Good morning my liberal friend! What was your take away from the documentary? Should we Delta pilots try to get unionized or not? 
Carl
Carl
Well now to call me a lib would be an insult! A Fox News hater yes, and MSNBC hater most certainly........ But fact remains the system is rigged. I don't believe any concessions should be granted in 2015 in any form........
But after a nice dinner and beers on you Carl, you would know all of that of course......
FIIG
07-27-2014, 07:37 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 307
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I was reading out our contract history. If ALPA has financial experts, why didn't ALPA know that a bankruptcy was coming and there was nothing we could do about it? Painful reading about taking huge pay cuts, then going bankrupt and having to negotiate more cuts. To me our financial experts should have been able to tell is that the numbers din't work and bankruptcy was inevitable. I am guessing that we as a whole acted on emotion and fear of losing the pension. This was a major failure of ALPA. This was a time where we needed true leadership to keep us from acting on emotion, and I feel ALPA failed miserably. It resulted in deeper cuts than were necessary and a new lower standard for us IMHO. Relaxing the rj scope was another major failure during this time.
I don't think that "IMHO" gives you permission to distort the facts to the extent you are currently enjoying. I guess they didn't have the benefit of your closely-held economic wisdom. Why do you hide your light under a bushel that way?
And where were you on April 4, 2006?
It is pure industrial-strength tripe that you judge the actions of the Delta MEC from the soft vantage point of eight years after the fact. "What were they thinking?" Indeed!
Our representatives are not elected to sit with their arms crossed when something as bad as an 1113(c) decision is looming. You negotiate, exercise the control you have over the process, and at least allow for the chance of success. You go to work for the pilots who elected you, the people you promised to serve when the s__t hits the fan. Taking decisive action is always going to yield better results than intransigent reliance on judges and arbitrators.
It is not "true leadership" to hang it all on a judge's verdict, as you propose.
07-27-2014, 07:42 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 7ER Capt
Posts: 461
Commencing rant:
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
07-27-2014, 07:47 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Read my earlier post. You think 121 was better? It sucked just as bad and in most cases more than 117 ever could. As for the "attempted CDOs" while the process was poorly handled initially, the fact that the uproar from the line pilot took them off the table gives me some confidence in all of our reps.
07-27-2014, 07:50 AM
#115
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by FIIGMO
Well now to call me a lib would be an insult! A Fox News hater yes, and MSNBC hater most certainly........ But fact remains the system is rigged. I don't believe any concessions should be granted in 2015 in any form........
But after a nice dinner and beers on you Carl, you would know all of that of course......
FIIG
But after a nice dinner and beers on you Carl, you would know all of that of course......
FIIG
Carl
07-27-2014, 07:53 AM
#116
ready for mo money
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Left Behind
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
Commencing rant:
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
07-27-2014, 07:57 AM
#117
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
Commencing rant:
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
I have no idea what happened with 2012... One minute I'm reading our chairman saying we won't rush or settle for an inferior product... the next minute I'm seeing a TA with two years of 3% pay increases, giving back profit sharing, etc. ... after only two months of a section 6 negotiation!
I don't know about the rest of you, but that didn't come any where close to what I put in my survey! (or any one I have flown with during the last two years...)
Obviously, for whatever reason, 62% disagreed with me.
Basically, if that's what I can expect after such massive losses, I give up. The sun will rise and life will go on.
Ob la dee, Ob la da...
P.s., Regarding the 2012 performance, plus the attempted CDO's, plus no Memrat for our recent TA, plus the Memrat requirement for significant contract changes being removed... I would quit DALPA today if I could. (So much for living in a right to work state!)
After 26yrs, I'm done chasing windmills.
And no, I'm not a DPA guy and it's not about the money... It's about the lack of representation.
P.p.s., Oh, and telling me that a 8.5 blk hr day followed by 12hr rest, followed by 8.25 blk dy, followed by 13hr rest, or that I can fly a max duty day out of BOM at 0100 because my body is on EWR time is a total fail... I don't need a sleep study to tell me what my body knows... it is very fatiguing!
So for me, 117 is a total fail.
Rant over... As you were.
Good luck to all.
Carl
07-27-2014, 08:24 AM
#118
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Because at the road shows, the responsible MEC administrators and NC members said exactly this to people who advised voting no. They said it was the best we'll get, and any return to the bargaining table would likely result in a worse deal, the NMB wouldn't back us, and the company has a Plan B to do what they wanted without us...and we wouldn't like that plan B. Those same administrators who post here said the same thing here.
That's how I know.
Carl
That's how I know.
Carl
07-27-2014, 08:27 AM
#119
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Just a small point of correction. Those "negotiations" that culminated in TA2012 occurred entirely outside of Section 6. We took the company's proposal before Section 6 even began.
Carl
Carl
07-27-2014, 08:34 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,921
Originally Posted by Starcheck102
I don't think that "IMHO" gives you permission to distort the facts to the extent you are currently enjoying. I guess they didn't have the benefit of your closely-held economic wisdom. Why do you hide your light under a bushel that way?
And where were you on April 4, 2006?
It is pure industrial-strength tripe that you judge the actions of the Delta MEC from the soft vantage point of eight years after the fact. "What were they thinking?" Indeed!
Our representatives are not elected to sit with their arms crossed when something as bad as an 1113(c) decision is looming. You negotiate, exercise the control you have over the process, and at least allow for the chance of success. You go to work for the pilots who elected you, the people you promised to serve when the s__t hits the fan. Taking decisive action is always going to yield better results than intransigent reliance on judges and arbitrators.
It is not "true leadership" to hang it all on a judge's verdict, as you propose.
And where were you on April 4, 2006?
It is pure industrial-strength tripe that you judge the actions of the Delta MEC from the soft vantage point of eight years after the fact. "What were they thinking?" Indeed!
Our representatives are not elected to sit with their arms crossed when something as bad as an 1113(c) decision is looming. You negotiate, exercise the control you have over the process, and at least allow for the chance of success. You go to work for the pilots who elected you, the people you promised to serve when the s__t hits the fan. Taking decisive action is always going to yield better results than intransigent reliance on judges and arbitrators.
It is not "true leadership" to hang it all on a judge's verdict, as you propose.
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