Originally Posted by Hillbilly

So there would have been no additional concessions to come through bankruptcy if JM had remained at the helm? He was good, but I think getting out from under the thumb of a judge during an 1113 unscathed is pretty lofty for anyone.


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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Off the top of my head, I can't recall you ever agreeing with me. So when you try to counsel me on how I might be losing people, I don't think you have an accurate picture of who I've won or lost.







If there was any real negotiations, it couldn't have been much. The time was so short and threats by management were so many.







It was not the MEC's belief. It was the NC's belief and that of certain MEC administrators, but not the MEC. Our MEC was put in a no-win situation by the NC and certain administrators.







How about you? Might you have wanted more?







If that was true, those negotiators would still be here along with those administrators. They're all gone now and they're gone as a result of their actions. They don't get to decide whether there's a calculated chance of a greater outcome by pushing for more. The MEC gets to make that decision. That didn't happen. The NC signed the TA when they knew it specifically did not meet the pilot's survey and gave up profit sharing which the MEC prohibited them from doing.







I don't view them as miscreants either.







My opinion is the opposite. Others agree with me...that's why those folks are no longer serving.







You seem to be lamenting legitimate debate on this forum. Why?



Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yes, twice in my career that I recall. Two NO vote recommendations and one "no recommendation" by the MEC.



Carl

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

I have no idea. I wasn't defending JM. I was just giving the other part of the story you conveniently left out.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I'd go for pay banding (widebody, large narrowbody, small narrowbody.) I'd even go for a 3 year freeze. But these gifts must be monetized in the form of increased payrates, over and above what we agree to in the next PWA. At least 20% for the banding and freezes.

Oh, and max out my 401k for me.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

I didn't mean to leave anything out. My apologies. I agree that we gave more after we had already given plenty. I do believe that concessions to get out of bankruptcy were going to happen no matter what. It was the first give where we made the error in my opinion.


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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Okay. Fair enough.

So how/when do we correct that first error? Our current rates are a 34% cut in buying power (based on published inflation) from the rates we had prior to that 32.5% pay cut you reference. So in terms of the buying power of our rates, we've made zero progress and have even slipped backwards by a percent and a half. Where do you see us going from here now that Delta has been out of bankruptcy for over 7 years and is making billions in profits?

Originally Posted by iahflyr

This is why bankruptcy judges say we are overpaid. This is why the NMD never releases us for strikes. This is why picketing at airports never seems to help our cause. We can't complain to the rest of the world when our demands are like this.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

I see us continuing to improve and eliminate that gap. That is my desire.


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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

So let me get this straight. Bankruptcy judges are perfectly fine with 42% pay cuts, elimination of major benefits like pensions. But asking for 20% and maxing out 401k, more than 7 years after the "crisis" is over and with our company making billions in profits... well that's just crazy talk?