Details on Delta TA
07-25-2014, 11:25 AM
#41
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,538
And some of the stagnation we've seen since the merger was due most of those 450 NW SLI's returning to the line, being replaced by retired and non-SLI's.
When I was hired at Delta, 1985, every sim instructor was also a Captain, not F/O, on the equipment he instructed on, and he had to fly the line some percentage of the year. Later, in several concessionary contracts, they moved to F/O IP's, but a real Capt. to give type rating rides...then they allowed the retried and Non-seniority list IP's, and F/O's to give check rides. I have not seen a "real Line Captain" as a sim instructor in about 14 years.
It's been a long downhill slide, no doubt, and those Capt. sim instructor jobs are not coming back.
Oh, at one time we had real ground schools, with real mechanics instructing us on how the systems actually worked! Now we get a CD in the mail and you figure it out at home...maybe.
When I was hired at Delta, 1985, every sim instructor was also a Captain, not F/O, on the equipment he instructed on, and he had to fly the line some percentage of the year. Later, in several concessionary contracts, they moved to F/O IP's, but a real Capt. to give type rating rides...then they allowed the retried and Non-seniority list IP's, and F/O's to give check rides. I have not seen a "real Line Captain" as a sim instructor in about 14 years.
It's been a long downhill slide, no doubt, and those Capt. sim instructor jobs are not coming back.
Oh, at one time we had real ground schools, with real mechanics instructing us on how the systems actually worked! Now we get a CD in the mail and you figure it out at home...maybe.
07-25-2014, 11:36 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: DAL A320 CA
Posts: 558
IMHO, I think pay banding would be a bad idea. We finally had an AE with enough SEA 330 vacancies to attract senior SLC 320 and ER Capt's to think about commuting to SEA for a significant pay raise. We'll see if anyone thinks that flying the big Bus is worth the price of commuting, but without the pay differential there wouldn't be any hope for movement outside of mandatory age 65 retirements. If the ER was banded with the 330 and the 320 with the 757, nobody would ever leave the left seat and junior guys would be stagnated even longer..(especially in SLC)!
No scope relief..ever!! Bring all flying back to mainline!! Buy the C-series and more 717's. If DCI collapses, bring their CRJ-900's and E175's to mainline and with each acft transfer offer 10 SSP's (or whatever the required manning # is for the acft) to bring their pilots to mainline with the jet...just like SWA is doing to the AT guys as they transfer AT 737's to the SWA side. We already have pay rates for the -900 and E190 and the mainline rates would be a great pay raise for former RJ drivers. The gradual transfer of hulls would allow a timely unraveling of the outsourcing debacle that has existed for the last 15 yrs.
JMHO..
No scope relief..ever!! Bring all flying back to mainline!! Buy the C-series and more 717's. If DCI collapses, bring their CRJ-900's and E175's to mainline and with each acft transfer offer 10 SSP's (or whatever the required manning # is for the acft) to bring their pilots to mainline with the jet...just like SWA is doing to the AT guys as they transfer AT 737's to the SWA side. We already have pay rates for the -900 and E190 and the mainline rates would be a great pay raise for former RJ drivers. The gradual transfer of hulls would allow a timely unraveling of the outsourcing debacle that has existed for the last 15 yrs.
JMHO..
Last edited by CGfalconHerc; 07-25-2014 at 12:09 PM.
07-25-2014, 11:43 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,101
Some of you are.instructors. Let's say Tsquare is right. 4000 initial qual in 12 months. How many instructors to accomplish the IOE?
Now the override is 15%. And that will rise. Why would we give up any of those jobs?
Now the override is 15%. And that will rise. Why would we give up any of those jobs?
07-25-2014, 12:02 PM
#45
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by gzsg
Some of you are.instructors. Let's say Tsquare is right. 4000 initial qual in 12 months. How many instructors to accomplish the IOE?
Now the override is 15%. And that will rise. Why would we give up any of those jobs?
Now the override is 15%. And that will rise. Why would we give up any of those jobs?
07-25-2014, 01:31 PM
#46
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,538
Originally Posted by NuGuy
"Those Captain IP jobs are not coming back". By extension of your argument, any attempt at scope recapture is also futile.
Nu
Nu
Congratulations.
And yes, I believe the scope ship sailed in 1992, because the same idiots keep voting YES to everything put in front of them.
What did you think that rocking chair was for?
Given the choice of having my retirement plan funded to pre-bankruptcy levels, or a return of 50 seat flying (already coming back via the 717's) or a return to real live line Captains as instructors...
I'll take my retirement pay, thanks.
07-25-2014, 03:15 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Free Bird
I'll throw out my wish list for C2015
I'll start with no more scope erosion, period! No scenario where more large RJ's are allowed. Tighter language in regards to JV compliance and specifics in regards to what will happen if the company is out of compliance.
No more productivity increases as seen in C2012.
- No increase in TLV
- No increase in reserve utilization
- No more moving bid periods around to "enhance" our peak time staffing.
- If it requires fewer pilots then it's a concession
If there is any decay with scope and or productivity it's a "No" vote for me. Assuming the above items are met here is what I would like to see:
27% pay raise through the life of a 4 year contract
15% pay raise year one
4% per year for the next 3 years
***No reduction in profit sharing to achieve the above pay raises.***
An additional 1% into the 401K
ADG up to 6 hours
Training days up to 6 hours
An additional 2:00 hours of pay for initial re-routes and 1 hour of additional pay for every additional re-route.
Accumulative sick time to some extent
After reading the DALPA contract history and considering Delta's current profits and guidance moving forward I think that the above is achievable in this environment.
Almost forgot, a giant M&M man dispenser in every crew room with the brown ones removed.
I'll start with no more scope erosion, period! No scenario where more large RJ's are allowed. Tighter language in regards to JV compliance and specifics in regards to what will happen if the company is out of compliance.
No more productivity increases as seen in C2012.
- No increase in TLV
- No increase in reserve utilization
- No more moving bid periods around to "enhance" our peak time staffing.
- If it requires fewer pilots then it's a concession
If there is any decay with scope and or productivity it's a "No" vote for me. Assuming the above items are met here is what I would like to see:
27% pay raise through the life of a 4 year contract
15% pay raise year one
4% per year for the next 3 years
***No reduction in profit sharing to achieve the above pay raises.***
An additional 1% into the 401K
ADG up to 6 hours
Training days up to 6 hours
An additional 2:00 hours of pay for initial re-routes and 1 hour of additional pay for every additional re-route.
Accumulative sick time to some extent
After reading the DALPA contract history and considering Delta's current profits and guidance moving forward I think that the above is achievable in this environment.
Almost forgot, a giant M&M man dispenser in every crew room with the brown ones removed.
07-25-2014, 03:28 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
It is interesting that so far this thread had mostly centered on what you are or are not willing to give up, not what improvements should be pursued. Free bird finally broke that paradigm.
Think about that for a minute.
Think about that for a minute.
07-25-2014, 03:35 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,101
Originally Posted by tsquare
Tsquare didn't say anything about 4000 jobs. I don't have any numbers. I keep hoping you are gonna throw out some empirical data rather than a bunch of conjecture.
Are there going to be 1000 or more Delta pilots retiring in 2022? Yes
You said you believed each retirement will generate 4 initial training cycles.
That is 4000 training cycles in 12 months.
If you want to take it back and say there is no training waterfall, that is fine with me.
But keep in mind Tsquare that our AEs over the past few years with no retirements and no growth generated hundreds of initial training events. And we are exposing the tip of the iceberg and the sims are full.
As I said I believe each retirement will generate an average of 6 and as many as 10.
Then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Time will tell.
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