Details on Delta TA
05-28-2015, 07:59 PM
#5011
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by Raging white
Publish OUR own survey results and 99% of the distrust and acrimony disappears.
Save the BS that it will "tip our hand" to the company. I'm quite sure they know we want more money and less work.
Save the BS that it will "tip our hand" to the company. I'm quite sure they know we want more money and less work.
The survey is used as a ref point for all future negotiations, which happen all the time now. FOR EXAMPLE:
as soon as we have a TA (maybe), I'm sure the next one the NC is going to tackle is settling the JV grievance. So the direction inside of the survey will be used for that. and so on.
There is a reason why they aren't released and I think its valid, given the way we are in constant neg. with Mother D.
You are welcome to disagree. But personally I think its valid and keeps us from ever fully showing our hand to the company.
05-28-2015, 08:01 PM
#5012
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by gzsg
Not to mention the same pilots stabbing us in the back race to give our survey results to management before the ink is dry.
They are coming in garbled and slightly stupid.
What are you talking about?
05-28-2015, 08:05 PM
#5013
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Professor
It would add value to your posts if you would.
A) not utilize useless slander and hyperbole.
B) use verifiable facts to prove your 'points'
3) construct a single logical argument.
Look, its ok to be mad. It is also to be worried that we are going to get screwed. Are we going to? Dunno. Maybe?
Maybe do it like this:
GZSG
I think that Council 1 was simply voicing their frustration. With the bad blood from the SLI combined with some more local issues, this is understandable coming from MSP.
Some posters on here, to me, seem to be too much on the side of the company. But that is just my opinion. I can't prove it. And maybe they really are just trying to keep everyone calm and rational while our elected reps get a TA hammered out. But I still think they are lapdogs.
sincerely,
George.
-----
See? Like that.
A) not utilize useless slander and hyperbole.
B) use verifiable facts to prove your 'points'
3) construct a single logical argument.
Look, its ok to be mad. It is also to be worried that we are going to get screwed. Are we going to? Dunno. Maybe?
Maybe do it like this:
GZSG
I think that Council 1 was simply voicing their frustration. With the bad blood from the SLI combined with some more local issues, this is understandable coming from MSP.
Some posters on here, to me, seem to be too much on the side of the company. But that is just my opinion. I can't prove it. And maybe they really are just trying to keep everyone calm and rational while our elected reps get a TA hammered out. But I still think they are lapdogs.
sincerely,
George.
-----
See? Like that.
You and the insider boys are just upset because the process is being honored. The 11 reps are actually following ALPA policy. Or is it just the stupid Council 1 reps. I think they have only 2 votes. According to you the jam down crafted by the shadow should pass 17-2.
How about the NC follow the will of the voting MEC members for a change instead of the admin who have no votes?
05-28-2015, 08:07 PM
#5014
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,023
Originally Posted by Professor
I think that Council 1 was simply voicing their frustration. With the bad blood from the SLI combined with some more local issues, this is understandable coming from MSP.
05-28-2015, 08:09 PM
#5015
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by Professor
Please reference my earlier posts about the survey. They haven't changed and PD is dead wrong.
The survey is used as a ref point for all future negotiations, which happen all the time now. FOR EXAMPLE:
as soon as we have a TA (maybe), I'm sure the next one the NC is going to tackle is settling the JV grievance. So the direction inside of the survey will be used for that. and so on.
There is a reason why they aren't released and I think its valid, given the way we are in constant neg. with Mother D.
You are welcome to disagree. But personally I think its valid and keeps us from ever fully showing our hand to the company.
The survey is used as a ref point for all future negotiations, which happen all the time now. FOR EXAMPLE:
as soon as we have a TA (maybe), I'm sure the next one the NC is going to tackle is settling the JV grievance. So the direction inside of the survey will be used for that. and so on.
There is a reason why they aren't released and I think its valid, given the way we are in constant neg. with Mother D.
You are welcome to disagree. But personally I think its valid and keeps us from ever fully showing our hand to the company.
What's the harm of releasing that?
There is no harm in releasing that information. It's been outdated for years now.
05-28-2015, 08:11 PM
#5016
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by gzsg
Lame. Roll out the SLI when all else fails. What does that have to do with C2015.
You and the insider boys are just upset because the process is being honored. The 11 reps are actually following ALPA policy. Or is it just the stupid Council 1 reps. I think they have only 2 votes. According to you the jam down crafted by the shadow should pass 17-2.
How about the NC follow the will of the voting MEC members for a change instead of the admin who have no votes?
You and the insider boys are just upset because the process is being honored. The 11 reps are actually following ALPA policy. Or is it just the stupid Council 1 reps. I think they have only 2 votes. According to you the jam down crafted by the shadow should pass 17-2.
How about the NC follow the will of the voting MEC members for a change instead of the admin who have no votes?
Again, you are using all innuendo and no fact. And the anger, maaan. So much anger. Just say what you mean. No fourth scotch tinged anger or anything. Just...I dunno, treat me like a human being?
05-28-2015, 08:12 PM
#5017
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by ImTumbleweed
Then release the survey results from C2012.
What's the harm of releasing that?
There is no harm in releasing that information. It's been outdated for years now.
What's the harm of releasing that?
There is no harm in releasing that information. It's been outdated for years now.
05-28-2015, 08:14 PM
#5018
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by Professor
Please reference my earlier posts about the survey. They haven't changed and PD is dead wrong.
The survey is used as a ref point for all future negotiations, which happen all the time now. FOR EXAMPLE:
as soon as we have a TA (maybe), I'm sure the next one the NC is going to tackle is settling the JV grievance. So the direction inside of the survey will be used for that. and so on.
There is a reason why they aren't released and I think its valid, given the way we are in constant neg. with Mother D.
You are welcome to disagree. But personally I think its valid and keeps us from ever fully showing our hand to the company.
The survey is used as a ref point for all future negotiations, which happen all the time now. FOR EXAMPLE:
as soon as we have a TA (maybe), I'm sure the next one the NC is going to tackle is settling the JV grievance. So the direction inside of the survey will be used for that. and so on.
There is a reason why they aren't released and I think its valid, given the way we are in constant neg. with Mother D.
You are welcome to disagree. But personally I think its valid and keeps us from ever fully showing our hand to the company.
05-28-2015, 08:14 PM
#5019
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by boog123
Let me guess, pre-merger D? DB
Of course I am. Look at the size of my ego and HAT!
I wear my jacket year round in Hawaii and South America too.
Dude, come on. Its a north base and if you were READING my post I was trying and failing to be George.
Lighten up people. This isn't brain rocketry. No, thats wrong...
05-28-2015, 08:19 PM
#5020
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by Raging white
You're right, I disagree. I think there is far more benefit of not having a benchmark from which to measure than any advantage the company gets from seeing "our hand".
I have negotiated, a lot, in a former life. In negotiations there is a concept you are always working to refine down to. BATNA. Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement. What do you do if you don't get what you want?
Well, if the company doesn't get what they want and then they know what your next ask or move might be THEY have all sorts of extra-contractual capabilities to get what they want. Just look at the FOM change for the commuting policy!
If you hand over the survey results, and you could argue ANY survey results, you give them a leg up in refining their BATNA all the time. You don't want that. That's bad. Very bad.
If anyone wants to read up on it.
Best alternative to a negotiated agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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