DAL 88 Driver

So you're saying they are all politicians? FWIW, I agree. But do you see the problem there? We don't need politicians representing us. We need people who are passionate about restoring our profession. People who are not afraid to call a spade a spade, regardless of who's feathers it might ruffle or how it might affect their political future.

And isn't it interesting how, when the debate gets difficult, you have to try and make it about DPA instead of about the topic of discussion...

tsquare

Yeah, God forbid that any actual math enter into the discussion.

DAL 88 Driver

johnso29

Oh I see. TC has no relevance here? Even though you and others were willing to have the organization that he created represent and bargain for us? Not a red herring, as DPA is still effecting us a pilot group, but I'm not surprised you used it as that's a classic defense mechanism.

BTW, if you think that you can be represented and bargained for by anyone or any entity without politics being involved, then you're living in a fantasy land. Politics control the world, and money controls politics.

DAL 88 Driver

We were desperate enough to want to make a change in representation because ALPA has become such a bad option with Moak and his disciples so strongly entrenched. But every discussion we have doesn't have to revolve around who represents us. Sometimes we might want to discuss things like... oh I don't know... C2015 and RESTORING our profession and our careers!

I never said politics weren't "involved." (You obviously have attended the Tsquare School of Redirection. ) I was talking about how politics are way too prominent in decisions being made. Given the severity of the cuts we took 10 years ago, the completely different environment in which we find ourselves today, and the relatively tiny amount of recovery we've made to date... I think principle and resolve (the kind of principle and resolve that most politicians lack) is what we need. In other words, we don't need politicians, we need people who aren't afraid to call a spade a spade and do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but I think people with your jaded view of the world and acceptance of that kind of status quo are a big part of the problem with the world today and a big part of the reason why today we're still 34% below the buying power we had 10 years ago.

scambo1

This thread started out benign enough, then someone started to use the past results predict future performance analogy. That got turned into a DPA spear chucking session. Now we are back redirected to discussing c15.

DAL 88 Driver

Cue Alfa Romeo with another chart showing how past results (but only past results post bankruptcy) predict future performance.

Purple Drank

3bil--honest question: Do you think a bankruptcy-plus contract in this environment would garner 62% of the vote?

Let's be clear: C12 is an anchor around our necks going into the next round. We all (including you) must strive to separate C12 from C15 and press hard to ensure we don't grant any concessions in return for the imminent improvements.

Record profits are on the books now. Why do you hold up C12 as such a shining beacon?

DAL 88 Driver

Welcome back, PD! Good post and good points.

gzsg

Rumor on the other forum that management wants concessions to keep the 747s flying. Anyone heard anything about this?