Details on Delta TA
07-25-2014, 03:43 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
May 2004 Delta hourly rates plus 5% date of signing.
3 year deal. 5% increases in years 2 and 3.
Per Diem $2.95/$3.95 plus .10 per year
5:15 per day vacation and training
44 days of vacation (UAL)
17% DC
Annual company contribution to medical FSA $4000 can be rolled over each year.
Hard JV scope limits with immediate compensation for noncompliance.
6:00 min day
restore profit sharing
premium pay for reroutes
3 year deal. 5% increases in years 2 and 3.
Per Diem $2.95/$3.95 plus .10 per year
5:15 per day vacation and training
44 days of vacation (UAL)
17% DC
Annual company contribution to medical FSA $4000 can be rolled over each year.
Hard JV scope limits with immediate compensation for noncompliance.
6:00 min day
restore profit sharing
premium pay for reroutes
07-25-2014, 04:01 PM
#52
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 13
It sounds like the majority consensus here is that pay banding is a negative. Someone mentioned it earlier, but how about a passover pay program a la FedEx. Those guys can game it a bit, but I haven't heard any major complaints except the guys who get converted for a category/seat that they've been getting paid for, but really just wanted the $$$. Any FedEx guys care to comment? Would anyone go for pay banding if it paid like UPS does? Just curious.
07-25-2014, 04:03 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
Originally Posted by Timbo
And some of the stagnation we've seen since the merger was due most of those 450 NW SLI's returning to the line, being replaced by retired and non-SLI's.
When I was hired at Delta, 1985, every sim instructor was also a Captain, not F/O, on the equipment he instructed on, and he had to fly the line some percentage of the year. Later, in several concessionary contracts, they moved to F/O IP's, but a real Capt. to give type rating rides...then they allowed the retried and Non-seniority list IP's, and F/O's to give check rides. I have not seen a "real Line Captain" as a sim instructor in about 14 years.
It's been a long downhill slide, no doubt, and those Capt. sim instructor jobs are not coming back.
Oh, at one time we had real ground schools, with real mechanics instructing us on how the systems actually worked! Now we get a CD in the mail and you figure it out at home...maybe.
When I was hired at Delta, 1985, every sim instructor was also a Captain, not F/O, on the equipment he instructed on, and he had to fly the line some percentage of the year. Later, in several concessionary contracts, they moved to F/O IP's, but a real Capt. to give type rating rides...then they allowed the retried and Non-seniority list IP's, and F/O's to give check rides. I have not seen a "real Line Captain" as a sim instructor in about 14 years.
It's been a long downhill slide, no doubt, and those Capt. sim instructor jobs are not coming back.
Oh, at one time we had real ground schools, with real mechanics instructing us on how the systems actually worked! Now we get a CD in the mail and you figure it out at home...maybe.
07-25-2014, 04:10 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
Originally Posted by gzsg
Are there going to be 1000 or more Delta pilots retiring in 2022? Yes
You said you believed each retirement will generate 4 initial training cycles.
That is 4000 training cycles in 12 months.
If you want to take it back and say there is no training waterfall, that is fine with me.
But keep in mind Tsquare that our AEs over the past few years with no retirements and no growth generated hundreds of initial training events. And we are exposing the tip of the iceberg and the sims are full.
As I said I believe each retirement will generate an average of 6 and as many as 10.
Then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Time will tell.
You said you believed each retirement will generate 4 initial training cycles.
That is 4000 training cycles in 12 months.
If you want to take it back and say there is no training waterfall, that is fine with me.
But keep in mind Tsquare that our AEs over the past few years with no retirements and no growth generated hundreds of initial training events. And we are exposing the tip of the iceberg and the sims are full.
As I said I believe each retirement will generate an average of 6 and as many as 10.
Then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Time will tell.
07-25-2014, 04:12 PM
#55
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Did they really have 450 SLI's? That's a big training department. I am not sure we have that many total at the combined airlines.
Bear in mind, that number included some of the LCA's, because under their system, some of their LCA's also instructed in the sims part time.
My Dad was one of their DC9 LCA's years ago. He told me he HATED being in the box but he could usually swap out his sims with guys who would rather sit in the box than fly IOE's/line check on the 9.
The point is, every one of their Sim IP's was a line Capt., just like ours were in the 1980's, before 4 concessionary contracts in a row reduced us to CD rom ground schools and Non-SLI's. We now have a sim IP's on the 777 and other fleets, who's seniority numbers are in the 11,000+ range. Not sure what they are getting paid, you know they can't hold it and have never flown the line on it.
Last edited by Timbo; 07-25-2014 at 04:23 PM.
07-25-2014, 04:21 PM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: A320A
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Did they really have 450 SLI's? That's a big training department. I am not sure we have that many total at the combined airlines.
So, with 74 IPs on the 320 alone, I would say 450 was a conservative answer.
07-25-2014, 04:28 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,835
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Did they really have 450 SLI's? That's a big training department. I am not sure we have that many total at the combined airlines.
With some exception, usually new IPs, all IPs were checkairmen.
Also recall that not all the IPs were instructing every month. Most programs had a limit of 6 months IP duty in a year.
Nu
07-25-2014, 04:33 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,835
Originally Posted by Foulwx
I just pulled up my instructor list for the A320 in 2003. At that time we had 51 Captains (including APDs and combination sim/OE/LCPs). We had 14 F/O sim instructors, and 8 OE only Captain instructors.
So, with 74 IPs on the 320 alone, I would say 450 was a conservative answer.
So, with 74 IPs on the 320 alone, I would say 450 was a conservative answer.
I would add that the structure of the training/checking program at NWA stayed mostly intact, even through brankruptcy.
Nu
07-25-2014, 04:48 PM
#59
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by NuGuy
It was a combined program. There were NO separate LCPs. All check airmen, including those that did check rides, OE and line checks, were IPs.
With some exception, usually new IPs, all IPs were checkairmen.
Also recall that not all the IPs were instructing every month. Most programs had a limit of 6 months IP duty in a year.
Nu
With some exception, usually new IPs, all IPs were checkairmen.
Also recall that not all the IPs were instructing every month. Most programs had a limit of 6 months IP duty in a year.
Nu
To me, that was a more logical set up.
07-25-2014, 04:52 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by gzsg
Are there going to be 1000 or more Delta pilots retiring in 2022? Yes
You said you believed each retirement will generate 4 initial training cycles.
That is 4000 training cycles in 12 months.
If you want to take it back and say there is no training waterfall, that is fine with me.
But keep in mind Tsquare that our AEs over the past few years with no retirements and no growth generated hundreds of initial training events. And we are exposing the tip of the iceberg and the sims are full.
As I said I believe each retirement will generate an average of 6 and as many as 10.
Then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Time will tell.
You said you believed each retirement will generate 4 initial training cycles.
That is 4000 training cycles in 12 months.
If you want to take it back and say there is no training waterfall, that is fine with me.
But keep in mind Tsquare that our AEs over the past few years with no retirements and no growth generated hundreds of initial training events. And we are exposing the tip of the iceberg and the sims are full.
As I said I believe each retirement will generate an average of 6 and as many as 10.
Then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Time will tell.
If 1000 pilots leave, 1000 training events are generated immediately unless those pilots are not replaced. And then the positions of the pilot replacing the retiring pilots would then become available. Wouldn't that just cascade down like it always does even with pay banding? How does pay banding eliminate the positions? Eliminating positions is the only way I see training events being eliminated.
It seems to me that pay banding and increasing the length of freezes would possibly cause guys to go to fewer training events over a career but not necessarily cause there to be fewer training events.
But, like I said before, educate me!
Seriously, I'm not seeing it.
Denny
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