Support ALPA - Vote NO
 

Offering good advice to the opposition?

slowplay! You're a closet NO voter! (just kidding:)) (or maybe not)

I actually think this post from slowplay brings up one of the little discussed factors that might help get this TA defeated. You can be a loyal ALPA supporter and still vote no. A no vote is actually helpful to ALPA.

I attended the MEC ratification meeting. There were many reps and ALPA admin types who stated openly that this TA was the best the union could do -- UNLESS -- it was voted down by the full membership. That would be the game-changer.

Donatelli says the MEC fired every bullet they had.
Does that mean the battle is over? Maybe not.
I think he's saying he needs more ammo.

A rejection by the line pilots would be incredibly powerful. Its never happened before on this property. That was clearly the thinking of some of our reps who voted to send this out to the pilots. A no vote from 12000 line pilots would do far more to empower the negotiators to go back in the room with management and fix this thing than would a rejection at the MEC level.

I think even ALPA believes that Anderson is over-reaching here.
They can't say it out loud for obvious reasons but our own union secretly wants this thing to fail. Just my gut feeling.

I don't buy this for a second.

If they truly wanted to rally the troops, they'd have never come to such a weak TA. They'd have had a big press event to describe how they tried to work with the company to achieve an agreement in an expeditious manner but ultimately Delta wasn't willing to make us the deal we deserved and Delta could afford.

Instead, we rolled over and tried to solve every issue the company has for next to nothing in return.

Not plausible Check. If it were true, we wouldn't be seeing this massive and well funded Internet campaign to (falsely) refute every post that advocates a NO vote. When you see the road shows portraying nothing but gains and refusing to characterize anything as a concession, you'll see the MEC administration desperately wants this to pass. The MEC chairman has said that a return to the table is "not going to happen" if pilots vote this down. The MEC chairman said that as a warning against NO voting line pilots.

Carl

Fair enough.
But I think we need to be smart here. We only have 30 days.
We can't afford to lose anybody and I'm concerned about some of the rhetoric. Especially over on chitchat.
I'm telling you - bashing ALPA is not helpful at this moment.

If the NO campaign appears to be an anti-ALPA campaign we will lose more votes than we gain.
Just my opinion.

Now THAT is 100% correct.

Focus on the actual language of the TA. The response to every claim of the administration during evey road show should be: "Exactly where in the TA does it specifically say what you claim?" If the actual language doesn't match the claim, calmly say so then state that personal opinions aren't really appreciated - only verifiable fact. Next question...

Carl

I agree. Do as Slowplay said. Best part, plenty of facts to work wirh.

I do think there is one thing we have to overcome, pilots who are nearing retirment and hate the TA but are voting yes because it's a raise. I think for those you really have to research the sick leave rules, if it really is bad then I bet its really bad for them.

And why is that? Why is voting to be closed 5 days before the next earnings release???

What is RA's urgency????

IMO getting to the truth here will explain a great deal. Also, this single point should be stressed over and over again.

The urgency is coming from the 4th floor, not from DALPA.

I hear what you are saying, but it makes no sense.

If this is the best, fine. The MEC rejects it 19-0 and we wait.

What is the hurry?

This is the deal the insiders cut day 1 and they knew they had the MEC votes to pass anything, including this concessionary deal. The 11 wind socks voted yes.

There is no free pass. They all gave to go.

Jerry,

In your DPA world that you advocate EVERY TA has to be voted on by the pilots. Is your organization a windsock, or are you being hypocritical?

I see what you guys are saying about signing DPA cards during this mess.

Here is why I say we must vote NO AND send a DPA card.

These guys do not care about is or our surveys. They disregard us because we let them.

Getting 8000 DPA cards will finally wake them up. These arrogant and ignorant men are beyond anything you can imagine. If you don't get them by the throat, nothing will change. They sit and laugh at us.

O'Malley said it all. The pilots have no basis for their surveys. This is what they think of us.

You don't need a survey to get this TA.

I've seen this posted several times. The earnings will not be a huge surprise. 1/3 of this quarters numbers are already in and public. Even if Delta makes 10% more than forecast, it's still a big number. All the brokerage houses have forecasts and there's a consensus number out there.

Would a 10, 20 or 30% change up or down really mean anything different to us in how we vote?

The YES voters on the MEC disregarded the will of their members. They disregarded the survey. They did exactly as ordered by the insiders. You included.

You overplayed your hand this time tenfold. You are going to get what you gave King. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Selfish, arrogant, self serving and ignorant.

Shame on you and the inner circle.

I'll take that as you're being hypocritical.:D

It is American's no hedge earnings that will tell the story. It will show what we will make with no hedges.

Q1 is the worst quarter. American made $1.4 billion. Q2 is worse than Q3, the best quarter.

American will make IMO $3.1 billion in Q2 and over $10 billion this year.

Nice try to soft peddle the increases. Delta's 2015 Q1 was 36% higher than Q1 2014. Not a bad profit sharing increase if we keep you from selling us a concessionary contract.

I'll take it that you and your buddies will do anything to pass this TA even though the pilots are clearly opposed.

What do the line pilots know? They are not experts like you and your extra smart lifers.

Fair enough. Maybe there isn't any smoke coming from the fact that voting will close just ahead of the next quarterly report.

But, when you combine RA's urgency to get this TA put to bed along with the fact that he hopes to do so before the next quarterly report, that certainly smells fishy to me.

What does he know that we don't?? More importantly...

Can that urgency be used as future leverage if the TA gets voted down??

Disclaimer: I trust RA and mgmt just as far as I can throw a 747.

How about you?

I want to defeat this TA. But here's the thing.
The votes we need are in Atlanta. I've been based in Atlanta a long time. The pilots down here are "conservative". In the old sense of the word. If you push for too much too fast you will meet resistance.
Our immediate goal is to reject this TA. Calling for DPA cards and a recall of all the Atlanta reps is a strategic mistake.
I'm just saying.

Let's win this vote. There will be plenty of time after that to debate what, if anything, needs to be done regarding ALPA.

>>Our immediate goal is to reject this TA. Calling for DPA cards and a recall of all the Atlanta reps is a strategic mistake.

Let's win this vote. There will be plenty of time after that to debate what, if anything, needs to be done regarding ALPA.<< ^^^

This.... ^^^^^^^^^ Focus.....and get on the phone to your pilot buds!